Bearing races

[James England]

I wondered if the collective wisdom of this forum could give me any info regarding bearings please?

Since I will be removing the engine from the frame and having the frame painted etc, I thought it would be the ideal time to replace the steering head and swinging arm bearings. These are all tapered roller bearings. The spray painter has said he would prefer that the old bearing races be removed before he does the job and, since I'd like to replace them anyway, they have to come out.

My question is..... how difficult is it to remove the races from the steering head and the swinging arm and does anyone have any tips re how to get them out and also put the new one in? Or is it possible to put new bearings and seals in but use the old races? (somehow I doubt it...)

Any info would be appreciated......

[fredintoon]

- - - My question is..... how difficult is it to remove the races from the steering head and the swinging arm and does anyone have any tips re how to get them out and also put the new one in? Or is it possible to put new bearings and seals in but use the old races? (somehow I doubt it...) ......

Hi James,
if the existing outer races look OK, yes, they will work with new roller cones.
BUT
your painter wants them to be removed so you can't simply leave them in there.
If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race so it will tap out real easy.
It's more difficult if you hope to re-use them. Use a bent prybar as a punch to gently tippy-tappy all around and around the race from the far side to drive it out.
Getting the race and housing real hot with a hot air-electric paint stripper will help.
I do not think a hot air blower will heat the race enough to reduce it's hardness.
Installing new cones is no problem. Let them sit overnight in the deepfreeze to shrink them and they'll tap in without too much effort. Use a scrap race that's had it's OD ground down with a belt sander as a drift to make sure the race goes in square.

[James England]

Hi James,
if the existing outer races look OK, yes, they will work with new roller cones.
BUT
your painter wants them to be removed so you can't simply leave them in there.
If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race so it will tap out real easy.
It's more difficult if you hope to re-use them. Use a bent prybar as a punch to gently tippy-tappy all around and around the race from the far side to drive it out.
Getting the race and housing real hot with a hot air-electric paint stripper will help.
I do not think a hot air blower will heat the race enough to reduce it's hardness.
Installing new cones is no problem. Let them sit overnight in the deepfreeze to shrink them and they'll tap in without too much effort. Use a scrap race that's had it's OD ground down with a belt sander as a drift to make sure the race goes in square.

Like it! Thanks. I'll be using new races, since they come with the kit. The painter says he can mask them off if required but I'd rather put new ones in I think.......... I like the freezer trick!

[fredintoon]

- - - If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race - - -

Hi again James,
let me expand on that.
the weld bead should only be TIG or MIG. Stick welding or oxy-acetylene welding will throw too much heat which could harm the frame.

[petejw]

if you dont have a welder
get hold of a good chisel
whack it several times 90 degrees across the bearing
place a rag around it just in case, they've been known
to shatter, that should get it loose enough to remove.

[Rasputin]

There are a couple of notches in the neck that allow one to place a long punch in it and knock the races out. It is really quite simple if you clean it up good and have a look. There are notches on both top and bottom races and are not that hard to access. I have never had any problem doing it without welding or grinding or cutting the races. So far I have changed 3 of them that way and have 3 more to do.

[petejw]

i havent done the neck bearings myself,
so it sounds like its the similar way
you would remove the wheel or swing arm bearings.

[CaptonZap]

There are a couple of notches in the neck that allow one to place a long punch in it and knock the races out. It is really quite simple if you clean it up good and have a look. There are notches on both top and bottom races and are not that hard to access. I have never had any problem doing it without welding or grinding or cutting the races. So far I have changed 3 of them that way and have 3 more to do.

Howdy,

Since you sound like a man with experience, I have a question or two. First, the Clymer manual, M411, copyright 1982, lists the torque of the swingarm bearing as 47 ft/lb. (Page 222)
I helped Hbonser grease his and install an 850 final drive last Sat, and his manual, (not Clymer), called for 4.7 ft/lbs. So I loosened mine back down, and now the bike seems to be wobbly when turning.
I can't access the manual on Catatonicbug's site, for some reason, so I was wondering what torque you use on the swing arm bearings.
Second, would the lessor torque allow the frame to lose some rigidity, by not spreading the support bosses, thereby not preloading the frame?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks, CZ

[Elevener]

My factory says pivot shaft 43~52 inch lb, lock nut 72.3 ft lb.

[79XS11F]

If the swing arm races go in squarely as they need to be, the 4.5 foot pounds of torque is all that is needed. Just make sure that the lock nuts are properly torqued. When you torque the lock nuts they will tend to draw the pins outward so start with a little extra on the pins. bottom line it that there should be no free play and no binding at all. Set up the swing arm with nothing else on the frame. Do this job first.
For the head set, tape off the inside of the frame where the races go. You don't want paint in there to interfere with the installation of the new races.
Rob

[bikerphil]

If it handles better with them tighter than 4.7, then I'd run it that way not worrying too much about flat spotting the races. IIRC, I tighten mine by feel to about 20 ft/lb.

[Rasputin]

Yup. What they Said!