Bearing races

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  • James England
    XS-XJ Super Guru
    • Oct 2010
    • 3039
    • North of England

    #1

    Bearing races

    I wondered if the collective wisdom of this forum could give me any info regarding bearings please?

    Since I will be removing the engine from the frame and having the frame painted etc, I thought it would be the ideal time to replace the steering head and swinging arm bearings. These are all tapered roller bearings. The spray painter has said he would prefer that the old bearing races be removed before he does the job and, since I'd like to replace them anyway, they have to come out.

    My question is..... how difficult is it to remove the races from the steering head and the swinging arm and does anyone have any tips re how to get them out and also put the new one in? Or is it possible to put new bearings and seals in but use the old races? (somehow I doubt it...)

    Any info would be appreciated......
    XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.
  • fredintoon
    Master of XSology
    • Mar 2004
    • 6795
    • Saskatoon SK

    #2
    Originally posted by James England
    - - - My question is..... how difficult is it to remove the races from the steering head and the swinging arm and does anyone have any tips re how to get them out and also put the new one in? Or is it possible to put new bearings and seals in but use the old races? (somehow I doubt it...) ......
    Hi James,
    if the existing outer races look OK, yes, they will work with new roller cones.
    BUT
    your painter wants them to be removed so you can't simply leave them in there.
    If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
    Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race so it will tap out real easy.
    It's more difficult if you hope to re-use them. Use a bent prybar as a punch to gently tippy-tappy all around and around the race from the far side to drive it out.
    Getting the race and housing real hot with a hot air-electric paint stripper will help.
    I do not think a hot air blower will heat the race enough to reduce it's hardness.
    Installing new cones is no problem. Let them sit overnight in the deepfreeze to shrink them and they'll tap in without too much effort. Use a scrap race that's had it's OD ground down with a belt sander as a drift to make sure the race goes in square.
    Fred Hill, S'toon
    XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
    "The Flying Pumpkin"

    Comment

    • James England
      XS-XJ Super Guru
      • Oct 2010
      • 3039
      • North of England

      #3
      Originally posted by fredintoon
      Hi James,
      if the existing outer races look OK, yes, they will work with new roller cones.
      BUT
      your painter wants them to be removed so you can't simply leave them in there.
      If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
      Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race so it will tap out real easy.
      It's more difficult if you hope to re-use them. Use a bent prybar as a punch to gently tippy-tappy all around and around the race from the far side to drive it out.
      Getting the race and housing real hot with a hot air-electric paint stripper will help.
      I do not think a hot air blower will heat the race enough to reduce it's hardness.
      Installing new cones is no problem. Let them sit overnight in the deepfreeze to shrink them and they'll tap in without too much effort. Use a scrap race that's had it's OD ground down with a belt sander as a drift to make sure the race goes in square.
      Like it! Thanks. I'll be using new races, since they come with the kit. The painter says he can mask them off if required but I'd rather put new ones in I think.......... I like the freezer trick!
      XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

      Comment

      • fredintoon
        Master of XSology
        • Mar 2004
        • 6795
        • Saskatoon SK

        #4
        Originally posted by fredintoon
        - - - If you are going to discard them, removing them is easy.
        Run a bead of weld around the conical face. As the bead cools it will shrink and loosen the race - - -
        Hi again James,
        let me expand on that.
        the weld bead should only be TIG or MIG. Stick welding or oxy-acetylene welding will throw too much heat which could harm the frame.
        Fred Hill, S'toon
        XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
        "The Flying Pumpkin"

        Comment

        • petejw
          XS-XJ Guru
          • May 2005
          • 2269
          • sydney australia

          #5
          if you dont have a welder
          get hold of a good chisel
          whack it several times 90 degrees across the bearing
          place a rag around it just in case, they've been known
          to shatter, that should get it loose enough to remove.
          pete


          new owner of
          08 gen2 hayabusa


          former owner
          1981 xs1100 RH (aus) (5N5)
          zrx carbs
          18mm float height
          145 main jets
          38 pilots
          slide needle shimmed .5mm washer
          fitted with v/stax and uni pod filters

          [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pA8dwxmAVA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url]

          Comment

          • Rasputin
            XS-XJ Super Guru
            • Apr 2008
            • 3180
            • Lacombe, Alberta, Canada

            #6
            There are a couple of notches in the neck that allow one to place a long punch in it and knock the races out. It is really quite simple if you clean it up good and have a look. There are notches on both top and bottom races and are not that hard to access. I have never had any problem doing it without welding or grinding or cutting the races. So far I have changed 3 of them that way and have 3 more to do.
            2-79 XS1100 SF
            2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
            80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
            Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!

            Comment

            • petejw
              XS-XJ Guru
              • May 2005
              • 2269
              • sydney australia

              #7
              i havent done the neck bearings myself,
              so it sounds like its the similar way
              you would remove the wheel or swing arm bearings.
              pete


              new owner of
              08 gen2 hayabusa


              former owner
              1981 xs1100 RH (aus) (5N5)
              zrx carbs
              18mm float height
              145 main jets
              38 pilots
              slide needle shimmed .5mm washer
              fitted with v/stax and uni pod filters

              [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pA8dwxmAVA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url]

              Comment

              • CaptonZap
                XS-XJ Guru
                • Jun 2010
                • 1748
                • Denver

                #8
                Originally posted by Rasputin
                There are a couple of notches in the neck that allow one to place a long punch in it and knock the races out. It is really quite simple if you clean it up good and have a look. There are notches on both top and bottom races and are not that hard to access. I have never had any problem doing it without welding or grinding or cutting the races. So far I have changed 3 of them that way and have 3 more to do.
                Howdy,

                Since you sound like a man with experience, I have a question or two. First, the Clymer manual, M411, copyright 1982, lists the torque of the swingarm bearing as 47 ft/lb. (Page 222)
                I helped Hbonser grease his and install an 850 final drive last Sat, and his manual, (not Clymer), called for 4.7 ft/lbs. So I loosened mine back down, and now the bike seems to be wobbly when turning.
                I can't access the manual on Catatonicbug's site, for some reason, so I was wondering what torque you use on the swing arm bearings.
                Second, would the lessor torque allow the frame to lose some rigidity, by not spreading the support bosses, thereby not preloading the frame?
                Any thoughts would be appreciated.
                Thanks, CZ

                Comment

                • Elevener
                  XSive Maximus
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 608
                  • small town in TEXAS

                  #9
                  My factory says pivot shaft 43~52 inch lb, lock nut 72.3 ft lb.
                  Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

                  1980 XS1100G 1179 kit, Tkat brace, progressive springs & shocks, jardine spaghetti, Mikes coils, Geezer's rectifier

                  Comment

                  • 79XS11F
                    XS-XJ Super Guru
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 3563
                    • Ottawa, Ont. Canada

                    #10
                    If the swing arm races go in squarely as they need to be, the 4.5 foot pounds of torque is all that is needed. Just make sure that the lock nuts are properly torqued. When you torque the lock nuts they will tend to draw the pins outward so start with a little extra on the pins. bottom line it that there should be no free play and no binding at all. Set up the swing arm with nothing else on the frame. Do this job first.
                    For the head set, tape off the inside of the frame where the races go. You don't want paint in there to interfere with the installation of the new races.
                    Rob
                    KEEP THE RUBBER SIDE DOWN

                    1978 XS1100E Modified
                    1978 XS500E
                    1979 XS1100F Restored
                    1980 XS1100 SG
                    1981 Suzuki GS1100
                    1983 Suzuki GS750S Katana
                    1983 Honda CB900 Custom

                    Comment

                    • bikerphil
                      Master of XSology
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 8634
                      • South Flori-DUH

                      #11
                      If it handles better with them tighter than 4.7, then I'd run it that way not worrying too much about flat spotting the races. IIRC, I tighten mine by feel to about 20 ft/lb.
                      2H7 (79) owned since '89
                      3H3 owned since '06

                      "If it ain't broke, modify it"

                      Comment

                      • Rasputin
                        XS-XJ Super Guru
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 3180
                        • Lacombe, Alberta, Canada

                        #12
                        Yup. What they Said!
                        2-79 XS1100 SF
                        2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
                        80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
                        Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!

                        Comment

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