Transmission blues??

[xs11lover]

I have a buddy with a nice Midnight xs11. He has fixed it up and put it back on the road and is having trouble with second gear. I'm afraid he needs to fix the trani, but I don't want to tell him to rip it apart if that's not the case. I really don't know the answer to tell him about his bike, as the xs I had with a bad trans was very easy to see the problem. I have not been able to ride the bike yet but he really feels it's not the trani, What do you guys that know think? Here is the email he just sent me.

"I just took the bike for a 10 mile ride and I'll try and describe the symptoms. Again it was just second gear, although I didn't gun it in first to see otherwise. I did accelerate hard through 3rd, 4th into 5th with no symptoms. Back in second - it felt like a momentary loss in power , a jerk, several times. It kept doing it as I accelerated, when I eased back on the throttle the symptoms quit. The tach showed constant acceleration, no drop off at all. There was no sensation of jerking motion through the shift lever that I could feel and it was easy going into any gear up or down. It didn't pop out of gear so that I had to kick it back in. '

[DGXSER]

IMO, he has the typical rounded off gears issue in second. It does eventually go in and stay, especially once you get out of the throttle. But when you get into it, the dogs slip past the esge of the slot and into the next. This matches the symptoms he is describing.

Let him ride it for a while, tell him to take it easy on first and second until winter sets in and he is done riding for the season, then do the tranny fix.

[CatatonicBug]

I agree. It does sound like the early stages of the 2nd gear issue. If he has time this weekend, it only takes 6 hours for a novice to fix it, assuming nothing else breaks in the process.

[bikerphil]

it only takes 6 hours for a novice to fix it

Maybe just to get the countershaft out of the bike.

[CatatonicBug]

Maybe just to get the countershaft out of the bike.

Nope. Start to finish, including grinding the gears. 4 hours if you know what you're doing.

[DGXSER]

All I can say Bug is you missed your calling cause you must have the fastest wrench in the country!! There are some repair shops dying to have you work for them and triple their profits!!

For someone who has never done the work, I'd definitely alot 4-6 hours to get to the point of pulling the countershaft out. And a good three hours to grinding the gears if you take good care and fit and grind some more like I do anyway. Always remember, you can always take more off, but it is very tough to put any back. (old carpenters joke, "I cut it off twice and it's still to short!")

Going back in, well, if the shift forks and the gears all align like the stars on a once a decade occurance of some sort you might get things back together as quick as they came out. But taking the time to properly torque all the nuts and bolts and such, along with the time to install either the countershaft or the shift forks at least twice, which usually happens to get things to line up correctly, probably a good 6 hours to put it all back right.

Two good days work should have it done.

[CatatonicBug]

a good three hours to grinding the gears if you take god care and fit and grind some more like I do anyway.

3 HOURS!!?? No way! That's the quickest part of the whole thing! Takes maybe 15 minutes to do ALL the gears with a die grinder with a cut-off wheel and a flat-tipped straight bit. 3-5 minutes per gear. For me, the hardest part is re-installing the exhaust. Once you know what is needed to get the countershaft in, it only takes about 5-10 minutes. That's why it takes 2 hours longer for a newbie to do it.

All is done on the centerstand. I've done it on the sidestand too.
Drain oil - 3 minutes
Pull exhaust - 5 minutes
Loosen foot pegs - 2 minutes
remove engine side covers - 7 minutes (I use a cordless drill with an allen bit on it)
Remove oil pan - 7 minutes (Can't use the drill here, for lack of clearance)
Remove oil pump - 2 minutes
Remove clutch basket - 10 minutes (careful with the star plate!)
Remove shift pawl - 5 minutes
Remove shift fork shaft and shift fork - 3 minutes
Remove Countershaft bearing - 3 minutes
Remove Countershaft bolt - 30 seconds (with an impact)
Remove countershaft - 2 minutes

[xs11lover]

I have a motor he could pull parts from and maybe get a feel for the setup before he touches the midnight.
I've never done it, & from the sound of it, I don't know if I could be trusted.

[bikerphil]

Bug, you forgot to add in the time for scraping 30 year old gasket material off all the covers. That's gotta be at least another 14 minutes.

[CatatonicBug]

Bug, you forgot to add in the time for scraping 30 year old gasket material off all the covers. That's gotta be at least another 14 minutes.

Yeah, but that's part of the re-assembly process. I use a wire wheel on that same drill for that process though. It goes pretty quick. Definitely a lot faster if the previous assembly only used RTV.

[DGXSER]

All I can say Bug is that if you truly accomplish those task in that amount of time, you are a god amongst men in the art of coaxing parts to fall of a bike as you look at them hard. I spend longer getting the tools from my tool boxes than you alot for the entire task on most of those. Guess I am just slower than molasses in the winter time.

And if you truly get the grinding completed on all four gears in that amount of time with any real degree of quality and fit, then you must have laser guided hand eye coordination and the eye of a CNC machine.

For the rest of us mere mortals, I suggest a good full weekend to get the project completed.

[MaximPhil]

to say nothing of going for beer and discussing the project with friends that drop in.
The Beer Monkey
Phil

[strom]

Same problem developed last year on my standard.
I left it alone for a while, since I was rather riding (I know you will flame me) my guzzi... but I kept the XS registered and ready...

So I loaned it to a good friend, so he could come for a ride with us. Anyway, the whole tranny locked up. He was riding last and it took us a mile or so to notice, but he got another biker to help him push the XS with locked rear wheel off the road. We jerked it a bit backwards and the tranny freed. He rode home in 3rd-5th.

I didnt ride the bike since, but I am a bit scared of what I might find in there.

Anyway, heres a question for you gurus... I got a bit grey and didnt wrench my XS for a while...

Where can I find a nice good thread with pics and everything about fixing the 2nd gear?
Besides the tech tips I mean...

[DGXSER]

Honestly the tech tip on the dremel repair is pretty dang detailed and chocked full of pics.

A better approach might be if you told us what you are concerned about or do not see in that tech tip, and we might could find you some good pics or give you a different description of the task at hand.

[strom]

I didnt up and downsides of moving the shim/washer to avoid future issues like this... any input?

Also, pics and explanation of this procedure.... while im at it