A few residual problems...

[planedick]

Aha

Looks like there is a problem with the valve adjust. You really should check into that before running any more. A valve not tightly closed when the combustion goes boom will burn that valve very quickly. Anytime you're working on the head part of these things you really have to pay close attention to the details and go slow and check everything twice. One little mistake will ruin your day. No wacky-backy that day!

[Larrym]

Aha! To the Second Power...

I second Plaindick's "Aha!!!". The way that the cams/lobes wear the outcome is that the clearances are always getting smaller up to the point where the valve no longer closes completely. Just sayin' that if you erred on the side of getting the clearance(s) on the tight side then it wouldn't take long for the "wear" to get to the point where the valve don't close all the way. (loss of compression).

At least if you go back in the valve train you'll know if you can rule it out for sure.

You did set the valve cover up so you can get in and out without having to replace the gasket each time, didn't you? (Various ways to do it and opinions vary about the "best" way...)

(What??? I get greasy and dirty too!!!)

[CA]

Well I didnt take any precautions when putting the valve cover back on mainly because I didn't think I would be pulling it any more, but thankfully the cover lifted off like I had greased it with pam, gasket still perfectly in tact!

The timing dots lined up perfectly...

Anyways, I didn't like what I had found. I have two shims out of spec. #1 exhaust shims are completely out of spec. #1 is .175 and #4 is .195. My #1 intake is a little tight at .155 approx, but I know why I did it like that, a .05 jump would have been too big, well maybe not now.

And to recap I could hear my #1 cylinder misfiring, it seemed to be the problem one...

Really I don't know how that could have happened, with #1 & 4, I was afraid I was a dummy and swamped two shims, but from the measurements that is not the case at all, perhaps it was my math. yet I will go back and check the math, I posted it all on here. So could it point to a different problem??

The curious thing is that the cylinder, #2 that read 25 psi less on the compression check than the others is completely within spec.

Really I needed to pull the valve cover anyways because my new cct was leaking a little oil. That thing seems difficult to seal. So its a win/win anyways.

Now I will read up on the procedure before i due the valve adjustment to find out which shims I need. Hopefully I have them! haha

Thoughts?

[Larrym]

Einstein: E equals VC Squared

CA,

Ok. At least now you've found something that is truly "off". Even if the misfire is still present after you button things up your efforts weren't wasted.

Mechanical...Valve clearances...hmmm... I'd offer this:

I haven't been inside the valve cover on my current XS. No presenting problems there yet. But the last XS was a different story. I did have to adjust the valve clearances. I used the clymer's manual and followed the steps. I did the math according to the way the book said and everything worked out. Of course this was in my "pre-internet" days and before I knew of XS11.com.

Now if I had to do the same procedure, I'd use the same math/technique outlined in these threads/posts:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=inches

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.p...91&postcount=9
(prometheus578)

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.p...05&postcount=5
(bikerphil)

I mean that sure, I used the clymers "tried-n-true" method but the math was a little "complimicated" and therefore prone to error. As I understand it now, there's even an official program/application where you can just enter in your original measurements and your computer will spit out the correct shims needed for each bucket. (Dunno where it's at though...)

Just saying that the math shouldn't require a Cray Supercomputer or a direct link to NASA in order to get it right...

[CA]

Ok i found I have all the correct shims needed, but I am now concerned why the hell my shims are off. I went back and checked my old measurements and math and everything checks out. All of them should have had a generous distance to travel from my last measurements and adjustments but now going back in only a few hundred miles later I am finding that they are not where they should be.

Especially cylinder 1 and cylinder 4. Some are exactly as they should be, middle of the spectrum. But I put pretty much put all of them in the middle of the spectrum....

I am concerned why these valves are closing up so quickly...

I used a torque wrench as well when putting them back in...perhaps the last guy didn't??

Should I be concerned??

[TopCatGr58]

Hey CA,

The clearances are said to close with wear with this design, something about the valves beating into the seats more/deeper as they wear, so the clearances get tighter. So..this is why it's recommended to set them on the wider side of the clearance range if you can.

T.C.

[Larrym]

Genuine concern versus Low Probability Afterthought...

I am concerned why these valves are closing up so quickly...

I used a torque wrench as well when putting them back in...perhaps the last guy didn't??

Should I be concerned??

CA,

When it comes to doing mechanical measurements especially with a feeler gauge there's a lot of room for "error". I mean it truly depends on the user/technicians skill and "feel". Was the feeler gauge actually tight or was there just a little bit of drag? (Rhetorical question...) What I'm getting at is that whatever you do be consistent at it each and every time. That way the end results when YOU do something are both accurate and repeatable. (Human error but at least a repeatable human error...)

Last Guy in? Wasn't that you? Ok. If it wasn't you that last time then f'shizzle it's you THIS time. Measure. Math. Add the right shims. Use that torque wrench. Button everything up. There's always going to be a difference between that "static" reading you took and the one a few miles down the road . The parts have to settle back into their normal operating positions. That's why there's a "range" to shoot for and stay between. The engineers knew this.

I say: No Worries as far as the notion that your valve train is wearing at an exceedingly fast rate.

[3Phase]

Ok i found I have all the correct shims needed, but I am now concerned why the hell my shims are off.

CA, the valves may have started to build up carbon because they were being held open slightly and weren't closing all the way.

Putting in thinner shims would permit the gunky valve to try to close again but it wouldn't be able to seat fully until the carbon had broken off from around the valve head/seat and the stem. If that's what it was then, eventually, they'll re-seat themselves so don't worry about it too much.

Don't do any sustained high speed runs for a couple of thousand miles, say, until the next time you change your oil, or you could burn a valve or a valve seat if there's a tiny chunk of carbon still hanging on to its seat by its little carbon fingernails. Check the valve clearance to make sure they haven't closed up further, then go ride it!

[CA]

Thanks for the explanation 3 Phase, and thanks to all others who have helped diagnose my problems. Sunday was the day we found it. Long story short, I have a deteriating kill switch that was blocking power. I mis-diagnosed it as bad coils and just went ahead and upgraded to Mikesxs green ones. Once we found the switch it still wasn't running, and that is when I really tried everything. Yet I did not think to look at the new parts I had just bought and installed.

Come to find out, after adjusting the valves and verifying fuel, air, compression, spark, timing, it was one of the new green coils. It somehow registered correctly on the resistance rating, yet was telling a cylinder to fire at the wrong time completely. That particular cylinder would spark but at every wrong time. I have never heard of such a thing.

Fortunately I kept the old ones, once they were re-installed the bike purred like the good ole days. much of this run around was my fault, but what isn't these days.

Now I just need to figure out which bulb will fit my headlight. I just bought a silverstar and its still not turning off the lamp warning light....other than that she is perfect!!

Thanks

[Larrym]

Green Grass and Smoky Mountains....

CA,

But...But...I thought the green coils were s'posed to be the GOOD ones, right??!

Egads, Man! Some assembly line person person must've been having a real bad day and now look how much of the riding season it cost. (Not you....the BIKE!!)

Do a pre-ride check and get out there. Days are getting shorter, you know.

Tennessee just might have a road or two with a few sweepers every now and then.

If ya don't post for a while we'll understand.

[Rasputin]

Now I just need to figure out which bulb will fit my headlight. I just bought a silverstar and its still not turning off the lamp warning light....other than that she is perfect!!

Thanks

Does the headlight warning lamp go out when you switch from High beam to Low beam and then come back on when you switch it again? I have had two bikes do that and the problem was in the HIGH/LOW switch itself. Some cleaning of that switch helped, but I ended up replacing the clear plastic part that the slider button itself was attached too. JAT from some experience I have had.

[TopCatGr58]

Come to find out, after adjusting the valves and verifying fuel, air, compression, spark, timing, it was one of the new green coils. It somehow registered correctly on the resistance rating, yet was telling a cylinder to fire at the wrong time completely. That particular cylinder would spark but at every wrong time. I have never heard of such a thing.

Fortunately I kept the old ones, once they were re-installed the bike purred like the good ole days. much of this run around was my fault, but what isn't these days.

Hey CA,

Glad you figured it out, but what you described with the green coils I'm pretty sure is a matter of wiring/connections. The coils only fire when they are signaled by the TCI, which is signaled by the PU coils. They can fire 180 degrees out IF the right and left PU coils are connected opposite. The fix would have been to just swap the high tension leads onto the other pair plugs....1-4 to 2-3 and vice versa. Without the neat little numbered rings on the high tension leads like the OEM's have, it can be easy to mix them up!

So...AFTER riding season.... I would suggest replacing 1 mikes XS coil at a time onto the bike, leaving the other coil and plug wires still connected to the spark plugs, then after connecting the primary wires to the green coil, and then running the plug wires to the cylinders that don't still have plug wires on them, then do the same to the other coil....and I'd bet that they will fire the correct cylinders at the correct time!

We're all human, oopses are our nature! That's why we have this public forum so that other's can correct "us" if/when we post an error...due to many reasons....CRS..... mixing details about these machines with others we have and work on, etc.!
T.C.

[CA]

TopCat I have a suspicion that you are correct. BUT I will say that I was always 100% sure that the wires were correct. The book clearly shows (if I now remember correctly) that the orange lead wire fires 1&4 and gray fires 2&3. So I was always aware of that possibility, and from past experience I knew the sound of switched leads and this was not it. It literally was just running on 3 cylinders which most of us know the bike does fairly well. It started on command, and I even took it for a few rides like this. My brother and I did ever possible test on the coil configuration with the lead wires from the tci and the plug wires. It showed us the problem when the misfiring went to number 4 after a switch and we had verified timing. I was convinced when we merely took the lead and power off of the "bad" green coil and held the old coil in place and hooked it up...she ran perfect. Same configuration as the green coil.

I say all that to say, my brain tells me you are right (and I hope for money sake you are) but the tests seemed to show otherwise. I know it seems like an impossible result for how a coil works...

I am going to PM dbeardslee to get his thoughts on possible problems with our installation method, I wander if the crossdrilling wasn't good for the coil.

But for now I am a happy camper. The bike is running like it should...fast and hard.

My last lingering question that I mentinoed earlier is my headlight issue. I put in a new H4 bulb and the warning light was still on and not giving full power to the light. I followed Rasputin's very good advice, as my headlamp switch is busted up, but no work there showed any improvement. It allows me to put on a highbeam, which looks almost as bright as the regular beam should but the warning light is still on. I swamped my RLU with my brother's and had the same result so its not that either.

Must be wiring? Thoughts?

[3Phase]

My last lingering question that I mentinoed earlier is my headlight issue.

[...]

Must be wiring? Thoughts?

CA, check the two connectors on the left front of the frame where the left-hand controls connect to the main harness. The headlight wiring uses both connectors and one or more of those wires/connectors may be baked or corroded and the RLU is confused.

The Blue/Green and Blue/Yellow wires in one connector come from the RLU and provide power to the High/Low Beam switch on the handlebar.

The Yellow wire, the Green wire and the Black wire in the other connector go to the headlight High/Low Beam terminals and to the Ground terminal (along with its spliced connection to the forward half of the main harness ground circuit).

[Larrym]

Narrow it down: Components or the wiring Between.

The electrical problem may be in the components/switches or the actual wiring connecting things together.

Swapping the RLU (Light Checker Unit) from your bike to your brother's ride as a test is a great technique. Rules out your RLU as the problem.

I'd say carry on in the same fashion. Swap your left handlebar switch, your dimmer relay, and even your headlamp bulb with your brother's bike. Do each one individually of course and make sure that after reconnecting your brother's bike make sure that his ride once again works correctly. I think the only "disassembly" on your brother's ride is to pull the headlamp out. The connections for all substitutions can be done from within his headlamp bucket...

After swapping the individual components you will know if the problem is in the wiring itself or not. If it is the wiring then finding the problem truly gets time consuming. Either follow your brother's wiring visually and compare it with your own or .....



(Courtesy TopCatGr58)
Go point to point on each wire with a meter. Having a fully functional XS like your brother's to compare with is a great asset.