Clutch clunk

[cywelchjr]

I have a feeling you all do what we are talking about, but you've never thought about it. I have NEVER seen anyone, in my nearly 50 years that approaches an intersection at 200yds, pulls in the clutch and coasts/brakes to the stop line exclusively on the brakes. In ANY kind of vehicle.

I have actually seen about 3 people who actually push in the clutch (these are all cage drivers) and hold it in till they come to a stop and then shift into first every time they go to stop. I think they are idiots, and they make me think of the song about "here's your sign" that my daughter refers to when dealing with idiots, but I have to say, I have seen people who do exactly what you describe.

[cywelchjr]

Maybe I was never taught the correct method but I was always told left foot for clutch, right foot for gas/brake. If you only use one foot, how do you take off on a hill? How do you make a complete stop for that matter, as you'd have to some how be holding the clutch in (so the engine doesn't stall) and pressing the brake (to stop the car).

Actually it's called heel and toe driving and it's how I was taught to deal with hills when I learned to drive. You use the heel of your right foot for the brake and the toe for the gas, letting you operate both at the same time with 1 foot (I know you can't get both when the brake is not pressed, but you just slip the heel off the brake as the engine takes up the load. The other method if you have a hand operated e-brake is to us that, but it will sometimes slip backwards.

[WMarshy]

Just to stir things up a bit...

Anyone down shift with no clutch? It can be done very easily without damage but is more touchy regarding rpm range and throttle blips...

[Guy_b_g]

I sometimes upshift with no clutch...but on the xs I don't downshift with no clutch, it's a bit clunkier than I like for that.

[bikerphil]

Anyone down shift with no clutch?

Yep, all the time, whenever I'm riding the bike back home with a busted clutch cable.

[DGXSER]

Yep, all the time, whenever I'm riding the bike back home with a busted clutch cable.

Now thats funny, I don't care who you are!!

I have tried it a few times, but it must be a very hard learned skill and I don't want to work that hard when riding.

Isn't it funny how for some people anyone who does things different than how they were taught is an idiot. Kind of like your stuff is stuff but every oen elses stuff is CRAP!!!

A funny story about shifting on a hill though. My two older brothers both shared a Plymouth VIP to drive around, I had a VW Bug. Now when I was gone to Basic and AIT, their car broke down so they tried to drive mine (neither knowing how to drive a manual shift). Got stuck on a hill and could not get off until finally the one in the passenger seat reached over with his left foot to work the gas while the other worked the clutch and the brake. I have no idea hwo they worked that out, but could not get the normal way to do it.

[Crazcnuk]

Ok, so how do you drive when your not actually going to stop?

Your coming down the highway at 80mph, signal to pull off on an exit, freeflowing with no stop sign, but your going to be doing 30mph now?

You push in the clutch, now what? You're not stopping, what gear should I be in? Do you just pick one and let the clutch out hoping your at the right speed?

From:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Transwi...ving_technique

To downshift:

Release the accelerator pedal, unless you are skilled enough to only partially reduce the throttle.

Press and hold the clutch pedal with your left foot.

Reapply throttle to a level appropriate for the current speed of travel in the lower gear. This is (somewhat) optional, since gradually releasing the clutch will adjust for a slight mismatch, however if you completely release the accelerator while at the same time shifting too slowly you are likely to have the car jerk somewhat.
Move the gear shift knob, depending on the gear that is currently selected:
To shift from an even-numbered gear (i.e. 2nd or 4th) into the next lowest gear, move the shift knob up, through neutral, to the corresponding position on the top row.

To shift from an odd-numbered gear (i.e. 3rd or 5th) into the next lowest gear, move the shift knob down to neutral, one column to the left, then down to the new position on the bottom row.

Gradually release the clutch pedal, allowing the new, higher engine speed to match up with the vehicle's speed.Adjust the throttle as necessary to decrease, maintain, or increase vehicle speed.

If you don't match the engine's speed properly for the lower gear, the car will probably jerk a bit. Once your skill at "matching revs" improves you can release the clutch pedal more quickly without any jerkiness.

It's not a matter of 'technique' or 'style'. It's a matter of being taught how to drive properly. It also shows why the experts tell us to be taught by professionals.

[psycoreefer]

Actually it's called heel and toe driving and it's how I was taught to deal with hills when I learned to drive. You use the heel of your right foot for the brake and the toe for the gas, letting you operate both at the same time with 1 foot (I know you can't get both when the brake is not pressed, but you just slip the heel off the brake as the engine takes up the load. The other method if you have a hand operated e-brake is to us that, but it will sometimes slip backwards.

I'm familiar with heel-toe technique, I've been driving manual transmissions from when I was 12 on my grandparents farm, before that if you count tractors. Anyways while your heel-toeing with the right foot, whats your left foot doing? Its easing out the clutch, and the post I was responding to said you "NEVER" use both feet in a manual shift car, its bad technique. Does my question make more sense now, it was meant to show that you must use both feet.

I do up shift without the clutch sometimes on the bike, I've tried downshifting a without as well but Its always a jerky transition going down so I've given up on that skill.

[Guy_b_g]

On street bikes since there are no syncros in the type of gearboxes we use (sequential) you can get away with either upshifting or downshifting without the clutch, as long as you blip the throttle to match revs and unlock the pressure on the dogs. Since you have to move through the gears one at a time you are never very far from matching revs as long as you don't row on the gearbox really fast...too fast and you'll either bog, over-rev, or break traction. You can easily keep pace downshifting with even the fastest emergency stop, even get ahead of yourself and in too low a gear.

A lot of the modern sport bikes now have slipper clutches and you won't break traction unless you are cornering so hard that no traction is left for anything but the turn itself...they hook up as long as you are generating power through the drive train, and release when the drivetrain is trying to spin the engine up...(no more worries about over-rev or breaking traction on the downshift).

Our bikes without slipper clutches can be shifted into a lower gear that creates enough engine braking to cause a break in traction (very bad in a corner).

Look at the guys in racing and you'll see that in a lot of classes they almost never touch the clutch except at the start of the race, the bikes are equipped with ignition interrupts that shut off the engine for a prescribed amount of time (milliseconds) that allow them to shift without even blipping the throttle. I used to use an interrupt on my 125 shifter kart, and only used the clutch from a standing start...shifted up through the gears without ever letting off of the throttle...and only blipped the throttle on downshifts.

The gearboxes on our bikes are much better suited to using the clutch on downshift and not trying to hurry things too much..IMHO.

[Guy_b_g]

A lot of the modern sport bikes now have slipper clutches and you won't break traction unless you are cornering so hard that no traction is left for anything but the turn itself..

I should specify that I mean on deceleration..

[Crazcnuk]

I could never figure out why I would ever want to apply brake and power at the same time.

This explains all those people that drive through stores though. Panic and push both at the same time.

Slip off of one, usually the brake.

[petejw]

hey craz,
its more about keeping the vehicle balanced,
if you back off to quickly into a corner you get
back off over steer.

[Crazcnuk]

Guess I've never had a vehicle that poorly balanced.

All our tractors had a hand throttle, with a foot clutch and brake. One foot on each, but the throttle stayed wherever you set it.

Tractors were famous for having little or no brakes anyway. You had to drive with the engine for both accel and decel.

[petejw]

heres a link to wikipedia,
but they call it lift off oversteer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

[Crazcnuk]

I was talking about heel-toe driving.