Hey guys 5 hours later and I need help please?

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  • Suckerpunch
    Truly XSive
    • Apr 2010
    • 116
    • Portland Oregon

    #1

    Hey guys 5 hours later and I need help please?

    No joke I spent 5 hours trying to prime my front master brake cylinder. I just did it a few days ago and after a few pumps of the hand brake, I was able to bleed the calipers. Now I pump and Pump and pump and so on, NOTHING.

    The oil level stays the same. If I place my finger on the bleeder I can feel a push pull pulsation. What should I do?

    Please chime in...
    1980 XS1100 SG

    When in doubt, knock 'em out!

    I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.
  • draketrumpet
    XStremely XSive
    • Feb 2010
    • 387
    • Norman, OK

    #2
    I had a similar push pull sensation on my rear brakes. On the rod in the MC, there was a metal plate with 3 or 4 small holes that were clogged. Go through every little hole in the MC with brake cleaner and a needle or thin wire, make sure everything is so sparkling clean you can see yourself.

    If I remember right, those small holes allow fluid to get into the chamber and then be pushed down through the lines, kind of like a one way valve.
    1978 Yamaha XS 1100E "Monster" 2010-2012
    2004 RCM-50GL 2008-2010, Don't ask, don't tell (don't really know)

    Comment

    • Suckerpunch
      Truly XSive
      • Apr 2010
      • 116
      • Portland Oregon

      #3
      Originally posted by draketrumpet
      I had a similar push pull sensation on my rear brakes. On the rod in the MC, there was a metal plate with 3 or 4 small holes that were clogged. Go through every little hole in the MC with brake cleaner and a needle or thin wire, make sure everything is so sparkling clean you can see yourself.

      If I remember right, those small holes allow fluid to get into the chamber and then be pushed down through the lines, kind of like a one way valve.
      I did that. I used almost a full can of brake cleaner. There is two little holes. I was able to run the cleaner hose down both of them and blow them out. I know it was a success because I allowed the brake fluid run out the area you would hook the brake line to. Tons of nasty oil was blown out. I did it until it was crystal clear. I even lubed it with fresh oil then blew it out again. I repeated this process about 4 times.

      I just cant figure out if im doing something wrong.

      But thanks,
      1980 XS1100 SG

      When in doubt, knock 'em out!

      I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

      Comment

      • perurider
        Truly XSive
        • Apr 2010
        • 121
        • Peru, Indiana

        #4
        can you loosen where the hose hooks and squeeze and hold the lever and then tighten it back up and let go of lever? and still nothing? mine was doin that and i got pi//ed and started pushing the piston w/a screwdriver and seen the brake lever just wasnt pushing piston all the way in on master cyl.
        '79 XS 1100F

        Comment

        • WMarshy
          XS-XJ Guru
          • Apr 2009
          • 2402
          • Mexico NY

          #5
          What year is your bike? I believe its harder to get them bled if you have the linked break lines. (The back master cylinder is linked to the front so when you use the back break it activates the front left.)
          '79 XS11 F
          Stock except K&N

          '79 XS11 SF
          Stock, no title.

          '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
          GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

          "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

          Comment

          • Suckerpunch
            Truly XSive
            • Apr 2010
            • 116
            • Portland Oregon

            #6
            Originally posted by perurider
            can you loosen where the hose hooks and squeeze and hold the lever and then tighten it back up and let go of lever? and still nothing? mine was doin that and i got pi//ed and started pushing the piston w/a screwdriver and seen the brake lever just wasnt pushing piston all the way in on master cyl.
            Hahaha

            Did all that too...

            Niothing
            1980 XS1100 SG

            When in doubt, knock 'em out!

            I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

            Comment

            • MindWebs
              XStremely XSive
              • May 2009
              • 431
              • Baldwin, WI

              #7
              by "oil" i hope you mean brake fluid...

              DOT 3 brake fluid cannot be mixed with oil.

              hmm, brake systems need a little help when i tcomes to bleeding them..

              don't just pump the MC with the bleeder open.

              meaning.... place your finger over the end of the bleeder and lightly press on it. as you slowly pump the MC, let the air blow out of the bleeder but let your finger seal the bleeder from air going back it.

              it takes a light touch.. and it sounds silly. but the MC can pull air up the lines much easier then it can draw fluid from the resivior.

              so you have to slowly force it to draw fluid.

              Good Luck
              1979 XS1100SF Special.78 E motor/carbs, Jardine 4-2 exhaust, XS Green coils, Corbin seat, S.S. Brake lines, Hard cases, Heated grips.

              2012 FJR1300 Gen 2. Heli bar risers, R-gaza crash bars, mccruise cruise control.

              (2)2008 WR250R. Because kids outgrew others.

              2007 Suzuki V-Strom 1000. (Just added 2024) pre-crashed.

              1975 Kawasaki S1 250. My first bike. Still have it. NO I'm not selling it!!

              Most bike problems are caused by a loose nut connecting the handlebars and the seat!!

              Comment

              • Suckerpunch
                Truly XSive
                • Apr 2010
                • 116
                • Portland Oregon

                #8
                Originally posted by WMarshy
                What year is your bike? I believe its harder to get them bled if you have the linked break lines. (The back master cylinder is linked to the front so when you use the back break it activates the front left.)
                1980 xs1100 lg

                Sorry guys I should have posted that in the first place.

                Im almost sure they are separate.
                1980 XS1100 SG

                When in doubt, knock 'em out!

                I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

                Comment

                • Suckerpunch
                  Truly XSive
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 116
                  • Portland Oregon

                  #9
                  Originally posted by MindWebs
                  by "oil" i hope you mean brake fluid...

                  DOT 3 brake fluid cannot be mixed with oil.

                  hmm, brake systems need a little help when i tcomes to bleeding them..

                  don't just pump the MC with the bleeder open.

                  meaning.... place your finger over the end of the bleeder and lightly press on it. as you slowly pump the MC, let the air blow out of the bleeder but let your finger seal the bleeder from air going back it.

                  it takes a light touch.. and it sounds silly. but the MC can pull air up the lines much easier then it can draw fluid from the resivior.

                  so you have to slowly force it to draw fluid.

                  Good Luck
                  yes, "oil" brake fluid.

                  sorry to say I did that too.

                  Thanks all. Im sure well get there.Has to be several different ways to do it.
                  1980 XS1100 SG

                  When in doubt, knock 'em out!

                  I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

                  Comment

                  • draketrumpet
                    XStremely XSive
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 387
                    • Norman, OK

                    #10
                    You're sure you got the little tiny holes on the rod itself, not in the master cylinder.


                    looking at this image, the 4 holes I'm talking about are just below the number 2 and a little to the left. A little hard to see here, but the pic is also in the manual. 4 little holes right there in the middle.

                    Also, try a bench bleed. if you get the same push-pull at the MC, you know your problem is there. If you can bleed the MC just fine, then you may need to replace your lines or find some obstruction in the lines to clean out.
                    1978 Yamaha XS 1100E "Monster" 2010-2012
                    2004 RCM-50GL 2008-2010, Don't ask, don't tell (don't really know)

                    Comment

                    • Suckerpunch
                      Truly XSive
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 116
                      • Portland Oregon

                      #11
                      Originally posted by draketrumpet
                      You're sure you got the little tiny holes on the rod itself, not in the master cylinder.


                      looking at this image, the 4 holes I'm talking about are just below the number 2 and a little to the left. A little hard to see here, but the pic is also in the manual. 4 little holes right there in the middle.

                      Also, try a bench bleed. if you get the same push-pull at the MC, you know your problem is there. If you can bleed the MC just fine, then you may need to replace your lines or find some obstruction in the lines to clean out.
                      Ahhhhh...

                      Nope I didnt go that far.
                      1980 XS1100 SG

                      When in doubt, knock 'em out!

                      I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

                      Comment

                      • Incubus
                        XS-XJ Guru
                        • Aug 2006
                        • 1003
                        • Austin TX

                        #12
                        Did you pull the pistons and clean out the calipers when you did the master? There are only a few things to make these brakes work. Is the master pumping when you squeeze the lever? If unsure, pull the brake line from the master and squeeze the lever with your finger over the hole the fluid comes out of. It should squirt a little past your finger. Are the brake lines clear and full of fluid? Is there an air leak? Are the calipers freezing?

                        My money is on an air leak at one of the junctions of brake line and component. If they worked a few days ago but not now, I'd be looking for a slow leak. Did you reuse the copper crush washers? I've done that, but it didn't always work out.

                        Patrick
                        The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

                        XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
                        1969 Yamaha DT1B
                        Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

                        Comment

                        • Suckerpunch
                          Truly XSive
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 116
                          • Portland Oregon

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Incubus
                          Did you pull the pistons and clean out the calipers when you did the master? There are only a few things to make these brakes work. Is the master pumping when you squeeze the lever? If unsure, pull the brake line from the master and squeeze the lever with your finger over the hole the fluid comes out of. It should squirt a little past your finger. Are the brake lines clear and full of fluid? Is there an air leak? Are the calipers freezing?

                          My money is on an air leak at one of the junctions of brake line and component. If they worked a few days ago but not now, I'd be looking for a slow leak. Did you reuse the copper crush washers? I've done that, but it didn't always work out.

                          Patrick
                          Long story short. I had my left caliper freezing up and my right caliper was doing all the work. I removed the calipers and cleaned them up (remover pistons and seals and did a real good cleaning). It was then I started having problems building pressure to bleed. I kept removing brake lines like until it was just my finger over the end of the master cylinder. If I put some "oil" in the brake line hole I build strong out pressure but, once I remove my finger I get nothing.
                          1980 XS1100 SG

                          When in doubt, knock 'em out!

                          I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

                          Comment

                          • Suckerpunch
                            Truly XSive
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 116
                            • Portland Oregon

                            #14
                            If I were to pull the calipers and the master cylinder, would anyone here care to do a complete cleaning and rebuild on them for me (paid of course)?

                            I really like to learn and do the work my self but, brakes are probably something I should leave to a pro for safety reasons.

                            Just a thought?

                            Daniel
                            1980 XS1100 SG

                            When in doubt, knock 'em out!

                            I will not argue with idiots. They will only try to drag me down to their level and beat me with experience.

                            Comment

                            • CatatonicBug
                              Master of XSology
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 6117
                              • Clinton, UT

                              #15
                              Don't let the brakes intimidate you. They are super simple, and don't take much to get them working right. I recently found a cheap tool at Harbor freight that helps a lot. A one-man bleeder that only costs $5.

                              Start by filling the Master Cylinder with fluid. This is BEFORE you put the piston in it. Once the piston is installed, fill the reservoir and cover the hole that the banjo bolt screws into with your finger (tightly). When you squeeze the lever, DO NOT squeeze all the way! Only half pumps each time. This is true for the ENTIRE bleeding process. Squeeze the lever, release the pressure under your finger, then put your finger back, and let the lever go. Squeeze again, and repeat this several times until the fluid squirts out past your finger.

                              Also, be sure to pour fluid into the caliper and rock it back and forth to get as much of the air out as possible, BEFORE connecting the brake line to it. Remember that you do not need to have the caliper connected to the wheel to bleed it. A small block of wood between the pads will keep them apart enough to put it on the bike when you're done bleeding.
                              1980 XS850SG - Sold
                              1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
                              Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
                              Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).

                              Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
                              -H. Ford

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