Soldering vs Crimping

[Yard Dogg]

The type of flux has nothing to do with it. While acid-based flux will eat electrical connections, it's the heat needed to get a good solder joint is what causes the problem.

'78E original owner

You've got me thinking now. Honestly I hate soldering, it's a pain in the neck. I usually end up crimping anyway. So I started looking around to see what temperature copper recrystallizes and you should see the ridiculous pages I'm bringing up. It's like trying to read advanced Greek. I think I'll stick to crimping. I can make trustworthy crimps.

[crazy steve]

...The weakening of copper I think your referring to, is when you use an acid based solder, because the acid in the solder continues to eat away the copper at room temperature. The rosin core solder does not...

The type of flux has nothing to do with it. While acid-based flux will eat electrical connections, it's the heat needed to get a good solder joint is what causes the problem.

'78E original owner

[Yard Dogg]

I was on an electrical forum just the other day where there was a discussion about making good solder joints. In electronics, which means pretty much anything that has to do with copper wiring, rosin core solder must be used. The weakening of copper I think your referring to, is when you use an acid based solder, because the acid in the solder continues to eat away the copper at room temperature. The rosin core solder does not. All the factory crimped connections I've ever come across in automotive were crimped and soldered by a press solder machine of some type. I was having trouble making the solder flow over the wire as it ideally should, it just kept rolling off. I had to go purchase some "Lead free solder paste with non corrosive flux" to make the rosin core solder work the way it should. In my experience I've had bad luck with soldering on wiring. I'm not sure if I keep getting crappy batches of rosin wire or what, sometimes it goes great, other times it will not flow into the wires. I usually end up using the not jacket crimps and shrink tube. I prefer solder, cause I think it is a better connection, but crimping and shrink tubes work real well too if I can't get the solder to stick.

[81xsproject]

solder, solder, solder.

[crazy steve]

Hmmm.. All those solder connections on all the weapons systems of all those jets I did that the electronics departments at Mcdonald/Douglas, GE, and Lockheed recommended. ...

Tod

You're confusing two different fields; electronics vs electrical. Soldering is standard practice in electronics, but is illegal in electrical, and ill-advised on vehicle electrical.

'78E original owner

[Ivan]

Well....

Most manufacturers of automobiles, at least the big three, made us crimp and solder on repairs, but yes factory terminals were crimped.

Personally I am partial to those weather tight heatshrink crimp terminals. They are the best of everything right in one package, with the sealing wax included.

I also agree on the proper crimp tool. That makes all the difference.

I really really really hate twist and tape. Anyone who knowingly does that around me risks an ass chewin'.

[Geezer]

I could agree with you more. I only use non insulated splices, crimp them with a ratcheting crimper and then insulate them with heat shrink tube.

BTW, I now carry a ratcheting crimper for 24 bucks in case any one needs one.

http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/connectors.html

Geezer

[Larrym]

An Old Connection Revisited

crazy steve,

When you're right you're right. Unfortunately, historically those who were right while everyone else was wrong didn't have their ideas welcomed with open arms. Copernicus? Galileo? Each one was right but that alone wasn't enough to keep things from getting real awkward.

Yeah....lots of folks are not gonna like it when their preferred crimping tools, connectors, and methods are recognized as something made my Fischer Price only suitable for ages 4-6 years. Losing those candy-colored insulators is gonna be a hard sell. It's Fun! It's Easy! And don't it look purty with all those neon bright colors??

Black or Grey glue lined shrink tubing just don't look the same. No dazzle or pop.

It's ok, steve. Keep trying to drag us into the 21'st century even if we go kicking and screaming every step of the way.

Just don't be surprised when instead of you leading us forward, we all band together and try to drag you backwards forcibly.

Some traditions are too important to abandon.

[trbig]

In the electrical industry, it's been illegal to splice/terminate wires with solder for years;

Hmmm.. All those solder connections on all the weapons systems of all those jets I did that the electronics departments at Mcdonald/Douglas, GE, and Lockheed recommended.

If you do it properly, and use a heat sink to avoid insulation damage and remove the flux.. which is corrosive and the major problem.. you'll be fine. I'm betting you don't see it much on cars because you can mass produce crimped wires much more cheaply and quicker.


Tod

[crazy steve]

I just couldn't stand this anymore...

Every time I read about someone recommending/doing soldered wire connections on a bike or car I cringe. You'll hear guys say 'that's a better connection', but if you look at any factory bike/car harness just try to find any soldered joints that aren't on a circuit board. There's reasons why the factories don't solder and it's not because of cost either.

In the electrical industry, it's been illegal to splice/terminate wires with solder for years; only mechanical means are allowed. Why? Because solder, when subjected to a high heat situaton, will melt. Another issue is the heat needed for soldering destroys the wire's annealing and makes the copper brittle (so now it will break much easier). But, you say, crimp connectors don't have a good record; too many fail. True, but that's not the connectors fault but rather the crimping method that's at fault. With the correct crimp, you can retain both the electrical and mechanical characteristics of the unbroken wire.

The problem is the use of insulated crimps. They're convenient, but the compromises needed to make them work also reduces their reliability in these applications. One thing to keep in mind is that none of the 'generic' wiring connectors you'll find at parts houses were invented for vehicle use; all have been 'adapted' from the electrical industry. There's several problems here...

1. To avoid ruining the insulated sleeve, you don't get a 'full' crimp. The 'standard' insulated crimping tool you'll find nearly everywhere with it's 'football' shaped crimp opening only gives you about a 70% crimp at best. So you've reduced both electrical and mechanical strength. The fix? Use a uninsulated crimp and this type of crimp tool:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=35-5431&div=3&l1=crimp_tools&l2=wm_9-3-4_multi-crimp_tool

These feature a 'U' shaped crimp opening and will give you closer to a 100% crimp. These are available from several sources, with Ideal, Klein, and T&B all offering versions. My personal choice is the T&B (the original inventors) as their openings have tighter tolerances, but any will be an improvement over a 'standard' type. These are about $25+/- at most electrical supply stores. Look for them at swap meets/garage sales too; most people don't know what they're for, so you can get them cheap. The one I use the most is probably older than me, has three crimp holes (the newer ones only have two), and has no other functions (no cutter, insulated crimper, etc). It does give a 100% crimp.

2. Insulated crimps don't 'support' the wire insulation. If you look at any factory termination, there's two crimps; one on the copper, and one to the insulation. The insulation is a big part of the wires strength, and failing to 'transfer' any stress from the termination to the insulation can lead to strand failure. You can buy this type of crimp, but they and the special crimp tool are both expensve. Using uninsulated crimps/shrink tube and overlapping the shrink 1/2" to 3/4" onto the insulation will be equal.

3. Insulated crimps aren't sealed; with a 70% crimp and it's open end, there's plenty of places corrosion can get a foothold. As designed, these are only rated for use in dry, vibration-free enviroments with no movement. Not exactly a motorcycle...

Can't find uninsulated crimps? Just cut the plastic sleeves off; that's the difference. A properly crimped, uninsulated splice/termination with shrink tube over it will have all the same qualities as an uncut wire.

Now, before anybody says 'I've been soldering wires on my bike/car/etc for years with no problems!', I'm not going to argue with you. That can work, but either you used a lot of care about where/how you did it, or you've been lucky. This is the right way to do this, that's what I'm saying.

'78E original owner