Hotrods Dyno numbers

[WMarshy]

J/W what header did you have on for the dyno pull? thanks

[Big Daddy Funk]

Timing

Hey Big daddy I forgot to ask did you play with the ing or valve timing?

Terry

We tried several different igniton timing settings, the best we found was an extra 2 degrees advance. Iggy timing could change from motor to motor and should be the last thing to adjust. Timing the cams took a while, we found that slotting the cam gear bolt holes was not enough to dial the cams in so I ended up moving the chain a tooth on the exhaust cam to reach the numbers.
There is some room to play with cam timing if you want more torque and less top end or vice versa.
Rick

[Big Daddy Funk]

Header

J/W what header did you have on for the dyno pull? thanks

It was a MAC 4 into 1. We threw the baffle away and made a straight flow through 2" baffle with 18" of baffle screen and muffler wrap. Throaty sound now and not noisy until you twist hard. Sounds kind of like a Formula One car.
Changing the baffle really changed the A/F mixture, but when I brought the mixture back in line, the torque and HP jumped big time.
Rick

[boediddly]

id like to see a super crank some ceramic bearings and maybe some high tech coatings

[Dan Hodges]

Dyno Daze

My bad, The posts were: Slide springs and stuff, Dyno jet daze, An excercise in insanity, Valve springs, Flow grooves around seats, Port surfacing, Exhaust porting, All by Dan Hodges. Saved me a ton of headaches by pointing me in the right direction.
With any luck, I will be bringing the Hotrod to Manitoulin this summer.
Thx Rick

I'm happy to hear I'm not the only horsepower junkie on Channel Eleven.

I initially used a pair of cams that I had Megacycle grind special for me which had 257 degrees of duration at .040 lift and .375 of valve lift with 108.5 event angles. At first I had the intake cam advanced 5 degrees and it made 74 ft. lbs. of torque but only made 95.58 hp after which I put them in at 108.5 per the cam card and with a bunch more fiddling I made 98 something and 72 ft. lbs. of torque. This grind was the same as that used by Yamaha in their road race two valve 750's and I figured it would work well in a street 1179 which it did. I used an original Super Trap 4-1 header with a special 2.5 inch ceramic wrapped core in the megaphone that I had SuperTrap make for me. I used the air box & K&N filter with 4 1 inch holes drilled in the base plate with small 1 inch OD push in filters in each hole. The carburetors used a stage II Dyno Jet kit but with their #130 main jet in place of the #128 that comes with the stage II combo. I played around with every slide spring I could find and finally wound up using V-Max slide springs with two coils removed. The ignition timing on the 81 Special is not adjustable but it can be made so and I set mine for 8 degrees initial and 40 degrees at 4,000 rpm fully advanced. 45 degrees helped the mid range a bit but from 7,000 up 45 degrees was too much. I checked the timing with a timing light and a degreed timing wheel that was designed for the 78-79 models.

Since all of this crazyness I have installed Web Cams stage II intake cam which has 262 degrees of duration at .040 lift and .395 valve lift with a 106 degree event angle but with the Megacycle 257 exhaust cam and a set of zero gapless top rings made by Total Seal in search of my elusive 100 hp 1179 cc Eleven. Total Seal claims these trick rings are good for about 2% more power but the jury is still out as I have yet to dyno this new deal but the pumping compression is up by 5 lbs. which is good for something.

One could use some of VP's trick Oxygenated U4.2 gas which will fetch about 6% more power and is a direct pour in replacement for pump gas with little to no jetting changes but you can't haul this stuff around with you and so I'm sticking with the BP stuff. This spook gas stuff is the reason one has to be skeptical of dyno test results because lot's of guy's are onto it.

A 39 mm intake valve get's mighty close to the spark plug in the XS head but the stock spark plug hole can be sleeved and a smaller 12mm spark plug used in place of the fat 14mm stock plug. Repositioning/angle the plug more toward the cylinder center would probably help but on a street bike it would not be worth the effort. Kibble White will make you a set of these 39mm valves and they are a nice upgrade in a big bore motor using the stock valve seats which can be machined/ground to accept this 1 mm oversize intake valve.

Chain drive will put maybe 10% more power to the ground but so will 80 cubic inches and the latter is less labor intensive and a lot cheaper if one is thinking about buying a big bore kit anyway but best of all, the 80 cubic incher will look stock. No the stock sleeves will not accept a 78 mm bore but the block can be machined and aftermarket sleeves installed that will and no this will not pin hole the block.

Happy New Year and may the crazy daze of summer return soon.

Dan

[81xsproject]

A pleasure as always, Dan. I am still waiting anxiously to hear your report on the 1311

[Big Daddy Funk]

Checking myself into Horsepower Rehab

Man I wished I lived around the corner from Dan Hodges! As for me, I think I've taken this 1196 as far as I am willing to go unless I relapse after I finish the chain drive conversion. I don't think I would go back inside the engine but, building a custom airbox and installing a quality header might be a possibility....uhm...
I am really looking forward to the dyno numbers from your 1179. I believe the 100hp,75ftlbs of torque is do-able but, you certainly have to scratch and claw for every one of them at the high end. "This stuff will drive you crazy if you let it"
As for the chain conversion, I have heard a wide range of opinions, from no gain to 25% gain thrown around but I agree it should be in the 10% range. I will know for sure shortly.
No spook fuel here either. Surpising to me was that mid grade Shell got me better numbers than premium on the dyno.
Thanks again Dan for leading the way. But you are an enabler for our addiction !
Rick

[cywelchjr]

Man I wished I lived around the corner from Dan Hodges! As for me, I think I've taken this 1196 as far as I am willing to go unless I relapse after I finish the chain drive conversion. I don't think I would go back inside the engine but, building a custom airbox and installing a quality header might be a possibility....uhm...
I am really looking forward to the dyno numbers from your 1179. I believe the 100hp,75ftlbs of torque is do-able but, you certainly have to scratch and claw for every one of them at the high end. "This stuff will drive you crazy if you let it"
As for the chain conversion, I have heard a wide range of opinions, from no gain to 25% gain thrown around but I agree it should be in the 10% range. I will know for sure shortly.
No spook fuel here either. Surpising to me was that mid grade Shell got me better numbers than premium on the dyno.
Thanks again Dan for leading the way. But you are an enabler for our addiction !
Rick

That actually makes some sense, since the higher the octane the less energetic the gas is. Unless the engine is engineered for it, your not going to be able to take advantage of it. I find that as I move up the octane scale that gas mileage goes down.

Pretty much unless you have computer controlled ignition timing and a knock sensor you can't take advantage of fuel that the timing wasn't designed for. With the knock sensor the computer can always keep the max advance that doesn't ping at all times, thereby getting the maximum performance out of the fuel your running.

[apndrvs]

BIG DADDY, im knocking your numbers by all means but i had found a website earlier in the year giving xs1100sf specs and the stock numbers are showing right at the same as what your dyno gave. or am i just reading them wrong.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...sf_special.htm

[Guy_b_g]

You're reading them right, but the numbers put out by Yamaha were probably a bit optimistic and also are measured at the crank, not at the rear wheel (which will be lower due to friction losses in the drivetrain). No stock XS11 that I know of comes close to 95 hp at the rear wheel.

[cywelchjr]

I don't know if they were measured at the crank or at the input of the middle drive, but your right that they certainly were not at the rear wheel, and a significant amount of that HP is eaten by the drive train.

[apndrvs]

thanks that helps alot. that sucks though i was really thinking i had a hause. i haven't had the chance to ride it yet.

[cywelchjr]

95 HP at the engine is no weakling. These things can pick up the front end without even popping the clutch if they are running right. I have brought the front end up without meaning to myself, just twisting that rubber thing on the right handlebar too fast will do it.

[Big Daddy Funk]

It's all in where you measure it

Some would know better than I but the numbers at the rear wheel on a new XS1100 were probably about 72-75 HP and 60ft.lbs. of torque. Killer numbers for 30 years ago and still a monster today.
Rick

[cywelchjr]

I would figure as much. I figure that if I do anything other than try to keep this beast in good stock condition that I will take it down and get it dyno'ed before anything to it. That will give me a baseline for any changes that I made as I go.