2009 winter repairs.....

[ross]

hmmmm...

hey there bikerphil.....sounds like i should almost shoot video of the event and post it....would be a good how-to.....will have to see about that....also will have to research the "cam dots"...i'm sure i read it, but will have to look it up again...also, should i give the old adjuster a final adjustment before i remove it.....just to make sure....this should be a very busy week around here..valve cover is loose and gasket is on da way....will keep the thread updated....ride hard, ride safe....ross

[bikerphil]

You can see the cam dots from the left side of the bike. They will line up with the arrows on the #3 intake and exhaust cam bearing caps.

[ross]

up to my elbow in elephants...

hey there folks...finally got the parts i need in.....

cam chain cover gasket...


and 6 of the clutch plates.....


(suspense building......)

released all the cam chain cover bolts...




the last look at her before i dive in....(repostioned in the man-cave for ease of access!)






yea......this is why it tears your eyeballs out and makes your rectum pucker.....






(yea dude, were knee deep in the conga!)
(been there....never,.....seen it.....never, done it......gonna have to now!,...will it run.....F*CK YEA!)

this picture tries to show where the shim goes for the valve.....i have seen the shims and now, i got the bug to check clearances and change shims correctly.....(as SWMBO is ready to cut the funding for my "government" project!)....


and that is the latest and greatest news from the man-cave......until tomorrow, same time, same place.....

....ride hard, ride safe....ross

[ross]

doing a little more research....

hey there folks.....diving into the project and checking the facts......"actually" read the clymer manual and have some questions....

got the new cam chain adjuster dis-assembled and adjusted back in, also got the new gasket cut at work today........


due to temps on the engine was wondering if this would work for coating the gasket.....or should i use the red stuff (hi-temp, i think!)...also this stuff is not recommend for areas that are in contact with gas.....(don't think that will be a problem as much as temp.....have used it before installing thermostats on the cage....


also i think i might be able to use it on this gasket, but i'm not sure.....


didn't realize what i had in these to pics......intake.....


exhaust....


until i looked closer...found the "dots" and the mark to check them by....

intake....


exhaust....


now the questions....
....which way should i pull on the chain when i remove the tensioner....by the looks of it, either way i go, one of the cam shafts are going to have to move.....i'm thinkin'....(yea, i know it dangerous!)....that if i pull up on the chain on the front side of the exhaust.....let the slack gather in between the 2 sprockets (making sure it does not come off the back side of the intake sprocket!)


and make sure the intake cam does not rotate, i should be fine....i can also check position by the dots position to the mark.....on both cams after i am done....it should be the same......

am planning to do this part of the project this weekend and just want to make sure it goes smooth....any input or other XS-ive hinkiness would be appreciated.....i know this is very important to get right and want to be sure i do it one time and one time only...for now anywho!.....thanx in advance for any pointers......ride hard, ride safe....ross

[bikerphil]

The blue RTV you have should be fine, no real need for the red stuff. Also, those cam plugs on the right side tend to leak. Whenever I have the valve cover off, I'll pop those plugs out, clean them and the head, and RTV them back in.

As for the chain slack, you should have no problem with slack anywhere except up front if you rotated the crank clockwise a few times and stopped on the "C" mark. If there is a little slack in between the 2 cam gears, just slightly rotate the exhaust cam forward (not so much to move the intake cam) with a wrench when pushing the tensioner ratchet in. After tensioner is in, make sure there is no slack in the back of the chain. Your cam dots should line up like they do now. Rotate the engine SLOWLY with the spark plugs out to make sure the dots line up with the marks. You should have about 1/4" of pull on the chain at the bridge between the cam gears if the tension is correct.

[ross]

advice taken...

hey there bikerphil....was wondering about those plugs....will definitely remove, clean, and rtv back in.....that was a great idea.....never thought of that and yet i'm there......cleaned the surface of the head to make sure no gasket parts were left behind......i am correct in my reasoning.....will hold intake cam in place and let slack gather between 2 sprockets, yet keeping chain on front (exhaust) sprocket teeth.....tensioner should adjust for the difference.....as long as dots line up back where they are now....all should be good ju-ju.......ride hard, ride safe...ross

[bikerphil]

Theoretically, nothing should really move when on the "C" mark. That is why that mark is where it is, a neutral point for the cams to remain somewhat stationary. Just take your time, double check everything and you'll be fine.

[ross]

put your 'waders on kids....

hey there folks....got the other order from PNM yesterday.....2 other clutch plates, control handles, oil filter, clutch spring kit.....

btw, we have the "plague" goin' around camp "rebel devil".....i fell victim last weekend to it....(102 fever, hot/cold spells, dehydration,....good times!)....this weekend was SWMBO's turn......(i wanted to show a photo of her, at this moment, but she threatened to cut off my "government funding" of the "rebel devil"....go figure.....)

back to the project at hand......took the plunge......followed all the advice, knew i had the luck of the irish (yea, i know it's a couple days past, but wtf!)...and all the knowledge of the XS11 forum to guide me on my quest.....

i questioned removing the cam chain cover until i was done with the project, but now realize that if you do not do it as described, you're project is "doomed" to fail from the start....there is slack created by removing the tensioner, and it will fall to the bottom of the motor.....glad i listened to the advice and took my time.....worth the effort and i know the "rebel devil" will be a better bike because of what i did.....

mentioned previously, i pulled the cam chain in the direction of the arrows and when the old tensioner, came out, there was slack that i caught and held until i put the new housing in and pushed it in to re-tension the chain....


(imagine your left hand holding tension on the cam chain while the right hand it installing the new tensioner.....(folks make sure you got all the tools ready to go when you do this!!.....pre-plan).....and all of a sudden your d*mn nose itches!!).....this is part the h*ll one must endure to be XS-ive!!!......

anywho, sucess!!!......old POS removed....


rotated the motor a few times (no bad ju-ju sounds...only the sound of the motor sucking air and breathing like a mofo'!).....line her up with TDC....


check the alignment marks on the cams.........
intake....


exhaust.....


as far as i can tell, all is "good ju-ju" in camp "rebel devil".....new CCT is installed and working as it should.....


btw....will be lookin' into torque spec for the "nut" that holds the spring into the new tensioner......(anyone know it off hand?!).....

also installed the new control handles......very nice!!!....




on to the second phase of the project....new clutch plates (friction only) and springs.....drained the oil and started in on the task at hand.....

(this may be the first "historical" photo that shows how to line up the brake pedal with the shaft.....notice the marks that line up on both!!!(don't make me break out the red arrows again!)

remove the brake pedal, no sweat....remove the foot peg....wtf?!......glad i thought it thru and used the block of wood and the floor jack to support the motor in the rear....right side foot peg removed......motor mount bolt back in place as it should be....


(and thats the live up-date from the man-cave!.....more progress yet to come......!)

(tomorrow will be another "great" michigan weather day and it sound like perfect time to spend in the man-cave gettin' to know one another better!)

until then and for now...ride hard, ride safe....ross

[bikerphil]

btw....will be lookin' into torque spec for the "nut" that holds the spring into the new tensioner......(anyone know it off hand?!).....

15 ft/lbs for the tensioner cap bolt. Got the info. from the V-Max service manual. Glad you got your cams lined up properly. Piece of cake, eh?

[ross]

clutch happenings....

hey there folks....(bikerphil).....thanx for the info on the torque spec...will be writing it in the bible 2morrow....did a little work in the man-cave today....a little cover polishing and such...drain the oil to get ready for the clutch plates...finally got the g*d d*mn clip out of the bracket that holds the end of the clutch cable onto the arm of the clutch assembly (i wanna meet the dude that got paid for that design.....and beat him senseless with a torque wrench!....)...definitely gonna come up with some kinda clip pin that i can slide in there and it will self-lock....also while i was there, noticed that the clutch cable was really sticky.....(already replaced the blown throttle cable (on the way to work) last year.....have been trying to get some oil down the casing to get it to move easier.....it's better, but still is not wet at the bottom end of the cable......will keep trying....also gonna order the crankcase gasket i will need when i re-do the clutch...(duh, forgot to order it and was lookin' at the job and said "d*mn, i'm gonna need that gasket to put her back together!")...am gonna hold on doing the clutch plates until i get the gasket "in-hand"....hope to be putting the cam chain cover on later this week after i do some polishing on it...i ain't the best at polishing, but i can hand sand like a mofo and got the polishing wheel for the bench grinder......sorry no photos this time...will make up for it with extra photos next time...time to order parts.....hahahahaha....(SWMBO is sick and can't stop me now!!)...ride hard, ride safe...ross

[ross]

%$#@#$%#$$#$@% clymer manual.....

hey there bikerphil....to start, thanx very much for all the help so far...and was looking for torque specs on the cam chain cover bolts.......yea, good luck.....also was looking for a tightening sequence of the bolts.......another no go.....anywho...was wondering using the photo below what the sequence is and if it matters or should i just snug them all down finger tight and torque to spec....doesn't seem right....will be blue rtv-ing in the new gasket....btw, what did they use to put the original gasket on with.....liquid nail?!!!!.....3 hours of luv in the man-cave just to get that sucker off!!!!....i know it's been there 31 years, but WTF!!!......(o.k. i feel better now.....)

(hey dummie, show the picture already....)


btw, the zip tie is front in this photo.....ride hard, ride safe...ross

[bikerphil]

The way I tighten those valve cover bolts is to start from the middle and work your way out. Start with say 6-16-1-11. Then on the four legs, two inside ones, two outer ones, repeat next one. I'll snug them just tight enough so the RTV doesn't squeeze all out, let it dry, take the bike for a ride, then tighten 'em just a bit more. Factory torque is only 7ft/lb. IIRC.

[bikerphil]

Factory manual says 17.4 ft/lb, that's probably for gasket only, no sealer. I wouldn't go that tight with using the RTV though. JMHO

[ross]

i figured so...

hey there bikerphil....was thinking so....both are machined surfaces and with the gasket and the rtv it should mate very nicely.....when i broke it apart, every bolt, when it gave, i prayed it didn't snap....can remove, but what a pita....it actually felt like they were in there about 17 ft/lb.....also have decided to market a new product to the XS community.......XSive 11 Gasket Remover!.....part sulfuric acid, part aircraft paint stripper, with a dash of baking soda and vinegar (just for effect!).....3 hours to remove the d*mn cam chain cover gasket.....i bet if i market it right and price it right, they will come!.....can't wait to try it out on the crankcase cover gasket when i do the clutch......since its been slow in the man-cave, i made a couple batches of it if anyone is interested.....

(this is the first batch....thinkin' about $19.95 per bottle......but wait order in the next 10 minutes and we will DOUBLE your order!)(and throw in a carrying case at no charge!)

anywho will be following your wisdom and torque, let cure (24 hours) ride, then re-torque a bit tighter....maybe 9 ft/lb......17 is definitely overkill.....will have more photos up soon.....itchin' 2 ride like a mofo......was looking and last year i had her on the road 03/14.....a bit behind schedule, but think it will be worth the effort......she's been really good to me, time to return the favor.....ride hard, ride safe....ross

[3Phase]

Factory manual says 17.4 ft/lb, that's probably for gasket only, no sealer. I wouldn't go that tight with using the RTV though. JMHO

Phil, Ross, the 17.4 ft-lbs is for the middle gear case with a new gasket. The valve cover bolts are only 7.2 ft-lb / 85 in-lb. It doesn't mention if that's with an old gasket or a new gasket.

Not that it wouldn't be a lot of fun to see what happened after someone put >17 ft-lbs on all those little valve cover bolts but it just wouldn't be right.


Regards,

Scott