A few problems... Take your pick if you can help.

[knightops]

So here it is....

I pulled the valve cover and I can verify that the timing is definitely off. Oddly enough, the cam shafts and chain are proper, but when the two dots come along, the T is no where near where it should be. Which brings me to another question. On my timing plate, I have 3 small lines and then a T above and to the right of them, then I have the C a little later. There are no numbers at all like in the manual pictures. Why is that? I will let you guys know how it goes after I finish the procedure. Before I start the engine, I am going to do a finger compression test. LarryM, is the bent shift fork a difficult fix? No need to go into detail, just wondering if I have a lot of "fun" to look forward to. Thanks a lot guys.

[CatatonicBug]

If it gets to the point where you need to tackle the shift forks, you might as well do the 2nd gear fix while you're in there. If it hasn't been done yet, it will need to be done eventually. The shift forks fall out on the ground (literally) when you remove the countershaft in the transmission. It comes out through the oil pan. There is a tech tip that details the entire procedure, and it takes a few hours to complete. I would allow a full Saturday afternoon/evening to do it if you've never been in there before.

Before you do that though, deal with the other things. One step at a time, and fix one problem before moving on to another.

[Bigfoot]

I would be real surprised if you didn't bend some valves. I have never messed with the valves myself but I am sure someone here can chime in with what to look for and what it will take to fix.

[Bigfoot]

From your symptoms, it doesn't really sound like a bent fork to me. If that was the case, I think you would get some grinding or other bad noises coming from the tranny as things are mis-aligned. I would look at the clutch first. Sounds almost like the plates are sticking together or the cable is sticking. Whole lot easier to start there than to pull apart the tranny if you don't need to. JAT.

[Larrym]

Clymer-ed!!

I've got the clymer manual and it also shows the numbers on the timing plate. Can't recall if they're present on the bike though as it's been a while since I've had that cover off.

I'm with Catatonicbug as far as the bent shift fork is concerned. If one is going to go into the transmission then there's the dremel fix on the gear dogs and the "washer swap" to do. If you've never seen/taken apart a transmission then now's the chance to do it. They really are fascinating and in your case there's no substitute for seeing what's going on with your own eyes. Really well documented on this site and you can do it without splitting the cases like the Clymer's manual says you have to do.

Bigfoot has a point about the clutch. There's no harm in taking a look at it and checking to see if it's doing what it's supposed to do when it's supposed to do it. The "bent shift fork" theory is based upon my prior experiences with other transmissions. I've also seen missing balls where the pawls engage/detent the shift drum. I've actually never taken apart the tranny on my bike so my "guess" about the shift fork is just a 50/50 shot. It really would be nice if you found out that there was something wonky and fixable in the clutch. No need to go into the tranny unless the evidence leads you there. And keep in mind that if you do have to go "invasive" on the transmission that you're working on an XS1100. I've always found that to be "fun."

Lets us know whether or not the "tooth jump" has resulted in bent valves. (compression test!!)

[DiverRay]

The 81 probably didn't NEED the numbers! there was NO adjustment for the owner! The "T" is top dead center, the "C" is for adjusting the cam chain. You need to check first at the "T" to be sure the cam shafts line up with the marks on the cam caps. AFTER you know it's good, check the cham chain adjustment by lining up pointer on the "C", and then loosen and tighten the adjuster.

[knightops]

Missed it by Thaaat much!

So I went in and took a look at the timing. In all honesty... it was screwed. I tried to go by the marks on my timing plate, but after 4 tries it just wasn't working. I finally realized that I should just use TDC. It turned out to be about 1/5th of an inch off of the tick marks on my plate. Is it possible that the plate somehow got misaligned?

Also, after my adventure with the timing...I wanted to raise the question as to what the difference is between the TDC mark and the C mark. What happens with the cam chain in between these marks that makes it incorrect to tighten the cam chain from the T mark?

I also took the time to check my valve clearances while I was in there and I got some tight numbers for the intake and some really strange numbers for the exhaust. It almost makes me feel like I must have done my measurements wrong on the exhaust. I did get some really bad tapping when the engine was running. Here are the numbers...
Intake: #1 (0.09mm) #2 (0.16mm) #3 (0.15mm) #4 (0.15mm)
Exhaust: #1(0.58mm) #2 (0.80mm) #3 (0.70mm) #4 (0.24mm)

I will be getting very precise numbers before ordering some new pads. Do these exhaust numbers look they could possible be correct?

Thanks again guys.

P.S. I will be starting with that clutch as soon as I get this bike to start smoking again.

[Larrym]

Not totally clueless..

From what I've heard here the timing plate goes on the right way or exactly 180 degrees off. Maybe the pointer is bent or loose?

The reason that the "C" mark is so important is that the cam chain is tightest on the rear side of the engine and loosest on the front side (Tensioner side!) when at this position. This has to do with the camshaft lobes being in the right position to provide resistance/tension between the rear side of the camshaft sprockets and the rear side of the crankshaft. Clear as mud, eh? Remember that the crankshaft turns CW when viewed from the left side of the motor. When you turn the engine in the adjustment process the crankshaft pulls the rear chain down from the camshaft sprockets making it as tight as possible. All the slack in the chain is therefore at the front of the engine.

Clueless about the valve clearance numbers and shims needed...I haven't gotten to that yet on my bike.

So you did or did not bend any valves?

[Ivan]

The alignment dog on the timing plate is slightly offset, and you would really have to work to get it fully seated 180 out.

[trbig]

Are you sitting down? Ready for some bad news? Are you sure??

The larger gaps you saw on the shims on the exhaust side are indicative of bent valves. Easy to do if the timing gets messed up..

Sorry.


Tod

[knightops]

Not fun.

It happens.... A compression I will do today will verify. I will let you guys know how it goes.

If it is a bent valve (or 3), is there anyone in southern California that wants to help me out? I will bring the bike to you. Anyone have some exhaust valves for an 81 special they want to get rid of?

I will be back in an hour or so with the compression results. I am not even going to bother putting back on the carb and tank (unless i find out that I need to.) I don't think you do since you open full throttle for a compression test anyways.

[knightops]

NO compression.

So I did a compression test....

#1. 0
#2. 0
#3. 0
#4. 105

I obviously need to do a top end rebuild.

On a happier note, the timing sounded great on the one cylinder I could hear, but I still wasn't getting it to start. I can't really expect the bike to start on one cylinder can I?

Any ideas on where to get valves would be greatly appreciated.

[Bigfoot]

Sorry to hear it. Good luck with the rebuild.

[bikerphil]

Source for valves, look under motor parts....

http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm

[knightops]

Thanks

Hey Bikerphil,
Thanks for the site, that is exactly what I was looking for. Are you guys familiar with any other parts I will need to properly do this? Head Gasket, valves, cam cover gasket. Anything else I should replace while I am in there? Thanks guys.