Bizarre electrical starter glitch ...

[3Phase]

that button never stuck before but it ain't workin' right now .... hmmmm .... I had replaced it a few months ago when I was still in SD with a new one from PNM. Worked perfectly ... until ...

The bad news or good news is: yes, a stuck start button will hold the start solenoid engaged and it will keep the ignition and almost everything else powered up and running even if you turn off the ignition switch, pull all of the fuses or hit the kill switch.

If your start button is melted or broken that's probably what happened.


Regards,

Scott

[Larrym]

Double Dog Dare?

SOooo, If I went out to my bike right now, turned on the ignition, pushed the starter button in and kept it pushed in, then turned off the keyswitch.........

The bike would continue to start?? I mean the starter would still turn???

Dang it! I'm sitting here cooling my heels "recuperating" from some minor surgery. Why is it that all the great opportunities to check out something really cool have to happen right now? (Grrr!!)

It'll be next week til I can try this and by then someone else will have confirmed whether or not our bikes do this.

[XJOK2PLAY]

LarryM...

Don't get too upset just yet... (and, get well soon, BTW!)

In a good working electrical scene, (like I'm sure your bike will be,) if you turn off the ignition as your pressing the start button & the starter's working, it should kill it, I would think. It's when the contact posts in the solenoid glue together that the starter keeps turning, regardless if the coil in the solenoid is energized or not.

Even if the start button melts, Scott, but you kill the ignition switch, it should kill power to the switch & the solenoid coil, right?

But if those 2 contacts stay together in the solenoid, it's feeding directly from the battery to the starter.

Wiz, you should be able to take all the wires loose from the solenoid, and check using a DVOM set on continuity mode across the 2 main posts. If you show continuity, the solenoid is fried & stuck closed.
(Sometimes, though, they'll stick only on occaision...) still should be replaced.

[3Phase]

LarryM...

Don't get too upset just yet... (and, get well soon, BTW!)

In a good working electrical scene, (like I'm sure your bike will be,) if you turn off the ignition as your pressing the start button & the starter's working, it should kill it, I would think.

That's how it should work but it doesn't.

It's when the contact posts in the solenoid glue together that the starter keeps turning, regardless if the coil in the solenoid is energized or not.

That's if the solenoid fails, not the start button.

Even if the start button melts, Scott, but you kill the ignition switch, it should kill power to the switch & the solenoid coil, right?

It does not. I went out and tested it on my bike. Someone else can test it on their bike.

To keep from baking your engine and starter motor or injuring yourself trying to shut down a runaway engine with a stuck starter motor:

Disconnect the starter motor wire from the starter solenoid

Disconnect the Green wire from the Red/Yellow wire at the wiring harness

Put the nut and washer back on the solenoid and gently tighten it down onto the Red/Yellow wire connector. Be careful not to squash the connector end. That will provide current to the Red/Yellow ballast resistor bypass circuit but the starter motor won't actually turn and engage.

Turn on the ignition switch then press and release the start button. You should hear a 'click' as the solenoid engages and another 'click' when it disengages.

Now comes the fun part!

With the ignition switch on, press the start button and hold it down.

Turn off the ignition switch, the kill switch, and pull all the fuses you like. The instrument lights will remain on but a little dim and the solenoid will not release until you release the start button.

The Red/Yellow wire from the solenoid supplies current through the TCI to the Red/White primary ignition wire and the White/Red ballast resistor bypass wire.

But if those 2 contacts stay together in the solenoid, it's feeding directly from the battery to the starter.

Yes, that's what it does. As long as the contacts stay together, the solenoid coil is self-powered while the start button is held down.

Wiz, you should be able to take all the wires loose from the solenoid, and check using a DVOM set on continuity mode across the 2 main posts. If you show continuity, the solenoid is fried & stuck closed.
(Sometimes, though, they'll stick only on occaision...) still should be replaced.

That will work to test the solenoid.

Regards,

Scott

[Larrym]

Exorcism not Required?

3phase,

And here I was thinking that Wiz had found evidence that all our bikes were "Possessed of the Evil" and would fail to heed our commands if they wanted to.

Darn those reasonable and factual explanations: I'm gonna carry holy water just in case.

Excellent kung fu ya got there!

[3Phase]

Larry, you get better soon and keep that Holy Water handy because I'm pretty certain The Wiz actually has these eeebil bikes sussed!


Regards,

Scott

[thewiz]

Lmao ...

Love it ...

[thewiz]

epiligue ... forensics

Well, Scottster ... you're right as usual. I didn't know that they made people as smart as you

I pulled the switch apart and what I discovered was that the conical spring, which came with the new button, had sunken into the recess inside the button itself and stuck there keeping the button sufficiently depressed to continuously activate it. Beside the replacement spring's tip appearing smaller, the copper colored aftermarket spring also felt slightly weaker by comparison than an original spring when I squoze it as well .... not a scientific test though.

I used that original spring from the other control and it seems to be working fine for now. In retrospect, I should have measured the tips of both springs to be absolutley certain what or which of the components were to blame ... but I didn't think of that at the time.

I'll go directly for the solenoid wire FIRST next time if that ever happens again ... ghosts exorcised .... for now. Thanks to everyone for their input.

[3Phase]

I'll go directly for the solenoid wire FIRST next time if that ever happens again ... ghosts exorcised .... for now. Thanks to everyone for their input.

You're welcome, Wiz, glad I could help! It should only be a problem on a 1978 to 1980 XS11. There is no ballast resistor bypass circuit on the later bikes because they don't even have ballast resistors.

On a '78 to '80 bike just pull the Green wire out of the Red/Yellow wire terminal and that will kill it if the start button is stuck.

If the engine dies when you pull the wire but the starter motor keeps cranking then the solenoid is stuck, not the start button. At least the engine won't be running while you scramble around looking for something to remove the starter or battery cable.


Regatds,

Scott

[DGXSER]

Had this exact same thing happen to me tonight. Started the bike up to put it in the garage and starter kept turning. Lucky for me I have the 81 model with no resistor and therefore no bypass. So my kill switch worked to kill the engine, but nothing would kill the starter. I used it to pull the bike into the garage and eventually it did stop.

After that, I pulled the side cover ready to disassemble the solenoid and hit the button. All worked just fine. Bike started, starter stopped when I released the button. So, tomorrow I pull the starter switch and clean it but good.

[thewiz]

It's goin around, ... maybe in the water ....