Does this sound like a brake or drivetrain issue to you?

[Lucien Harpress]

After a month or two of work (and two or three carb teardowns, with at least one more in the future), I can at least delude myself into thinking my bike is almost ready to hit the road. The only problem with THIS is that most of my attention has been focused on the carbs, with not so much of it focused on the rest of the bike. Recently, say about yesterday, I got to thinking about what else needs to be addressed on my XS.

The few times I've rolled it around the barn (with help), it was always really hesitant to go anywhere. This didn't matter if it was in neutral or the clutch was pulled in- either way it was quite stubborn. At first I thought this was simply because it was such a big, heavy bike. Looking at it today, however, I'm not so sure.

You see, I would imagine that with the bike up on the center stand with the rear wheel off the ground and the tranny in neutral, you should be able to spin the rear wheel by hand. Alas, on mine you can't. So, to rule out the transmission, I squeezed the clutch and tried again. Again, solid as a rock. Finally, I turned the bike on, (CAREFULLY) put it into first (double-checking to be sure the wheel wasn't contacting anything on the ground) and let the clutch out just enough to get the back tire to spin, which it did. After I squeezed the clutch back in again, the rear wheel immediately stopped spinning.

My first instinct is that I have a rear brake sticking. I have yet to ride my bike at all (just finished my Motorcycle Safety Course yesterday, and I wasn't going to even try to ride it before I took the course), which is probably why it took me so long to find out. Is this what it probably is, or does this sound more like a problem somewhere in the drivetrain?

If it IS the brake, how hard are those things to get into and lubricate?

[DGXSER]

Use the easy button!!!

If it were me, I'd look at the brakes first. Read up on the spooge hole and how to clear it out. IIRC, your bike has been sitting quite a while, I would really go through all three calipers before going out on the road with it. Stopping is MUCH more important than going is!!!

The brake calipers on these bikes are VERY simple. Use your manual to guide you through removing the caliper from the bike. On the front, pull one caliper at a time. Remove the retaining ring and the dust cover from the piston and use the brake MC to push the piston out of the caliper making sure you keep fluid in the MC reservior so as not to get air in the MC (especially on the rear MC it is a PITA to bleed out). Then clean the piston up, you really only need to worry about the smooth wall area, that groove at the top just holds the dust cover. Next pull the O-ring out (Its square in section view, sits in a groove so only a little is exposed) then clean the o-ring and the groove of all the old brake fluid goo. Get it REALLY clean. Then use some fresh brake fluid to coat the o-ring and put it back in, use brake fluid to lube the piston and reinsert it into the caliper, reinstall the dust cover and put it back on the bike. Bleed out the air putting fresh fluid in the MC pushing the old fluid out until clean fresh fluid comes out of the caliper. Repeat two more times.

Not hard really, and alot easier and cheaper than digging through tranny stuff. Also the most likely culprit. I would estimate one good day to go through all three at the most. Assuming your master cylinders are both good.

[esw1104]

My 81 XS1100 was locked solid when i bought it from the wrecker.
I would neer recomend driving it without removing both rims and lubing the axels.

Also it really is a good idea to do the brakes before starting to ride it
Going is fun but stopping is kinda important.

The bike should roll around without pushing too hard.
I have most trouble getting the heavy old thing rolling but once in motion easy to roll.

[thewiz]

In last two years ...

I have owned five different 11s ... all bought with something or things wrong. All but one has had sticking calipers ..... usually a spooge hole issue, like Don has said.
Try opening the bleeder screw to release the piston pressure and see if that helps to roll the bike or move the back wheel. If it does, it's likely a spooge hole clogged. Tech Tips covers spooge hole repairs front and rear, IIRC.

[wa407mpp]

Another possibility is some times if a bike has set for a long time the pistons in the brake calipers will rust and when you apply the brakes they will stick in their bores and not release and allow the pads to pull away from the disk. If the brakes check out ok check the middle gear box it may be getting ready to freeze up.

[Lucien Harpress]

I removed the rear bleeder screw, but I'm not sure if it helped any. I could spin the wheel by hand once it was out, but it was very difficult. I put the screw back in a pumped the rear brake a few times, and it didn't seem to make a difference in how "stuck" the wheel was.

I'll try clearing out the spooge hole, probably tomorrow. If that doesn't work, though, I'll probably have to tear into the calipers a bit more.

Thankfully, though, I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's a brake issue, not a transmission one. For that I'm thankful- I've got enough to worry about.

[madmax-im]

Lucien... all the symptoms you describe are brake related...its a common malady...everything that has been suggested should be done...spooge hole ,cleaning out all the dirt in the caliper and in the O ring groove...and checking the movement of the piston...should be rust free...but prolly isnt.

[redbone]

and when you get the rear one all cleaned up and workin, then start on the front ones. they are in the same shape.

[thewiz]

Either way, Lucien ..

spooge hole or caliper piston frozen up, it's not a hard repair. To further diag', disconnect the caliper by it's bolt from the bracket, set aside any pads then crack the bleeder screw a bit, put a piece of stiff cardboard over the 'pretty' side of the caliper and carefully squeeze the piston with a pair of channel locks or a C clamp to see if fluid comes out. That'll help pinpoint master cyl or caliper. .

Should the piston be seized, the most difficult part is gettin' it out.

Some guys tell of using a grease gun with a Zirk fitting screwed in in place of the bleeder screw ... I've always used compressed air, myself, after soaking the piston perimeter with PB Blaster. Sometimes it takes 100+ psi of line pressure to pop it out ... care needs to be taken to assure that when the piston pops it can't injure anyone. I usually cover 'em real good with a towel and step on the caliper before applying the air.

Get some silicone brake parts grease in the auto parts store for reassembly of all the parts. You might also check to see that the caliper floats easily on it's sleeve too ... often overlooked ... the silicone grease will slick it up.

[Lucien Harpress]

The front two aren't that bad, actually- that's what helped throw me for so long on the back tire, I think. At least in "bench" tests the front wheel spins freely, then grabs nicely whenever the lever is pulled.

I DO know, however, that this ultimately means nothing. Once I get the rear-brake and engine problems sorted out I plan on doing a full set of low-speed road-tests, just to get a "feel" for the bike and see if there's anything I missed.

[redbone]

your bench test on the front brakes is good, but that could mean only 1 of the calipers is working and you WILL need both. i've been down that road. like you said..that can be addressed later for sure.
jsut a note on what the P>O did to mine....when he figured out the caliper would freeze in the closed position, he pried it open, then replaced the banjo bolt with a plain one so the brake fluid could not make it to the caliper.
you just never know what the p.o did.

[thewiz]

Geez, Red ..

when he figured out the caliper would freeze in the closed position, he pried it open, then replaced the banjo bolt with a plain one so the brake fluid could not make it to the caliper.

That could be one of the worst bonehead PO stunts I have ever heard ...

[Lucien Harpress]

I really, really, really, REALLY hope the rear caliper is the problem.

I just spent an hour trying to get at the rear spooge hole with some kind of wire- until I gave up in frustration so I wouldn't break anything!

Instead, I decided to be a bit more constructive and pull the rear caliper. That thing is ridiculous! Brake pads, piston, you name it- the whole mess was pretty much frozen solid! I'm surprised it moved as much as it did.

When I was banging on the back axle getting the calipers out I must've jarred something a bit loose, because the rear brake let up a bit. I tried the rear pedal (this was before, when everything was still closed up), and the back brake immediately locked back up and stayed there. Sticking brakes ARE the issue.

I'm still going to try and clear out the spooge hole before I put the system back together. It's not going to be tonight, though. I want to concentrate on getting the caliper cleaned out and back together first.

Question, though- should both brake pads move relatively freely on their "tracks"? There was quite a bit of gunk up there, and I'm curious on how much play each one should have back and forth.

Finally, on a more positive note, I officially got my motorcycle endorsement this morning! Whenever I'm able to get this beast up and running, I'll (legally) be able to ride it!

[thewiz]

Guitar strings ...

are great for situations like that. Do you play? You need to pop the reservoir off too. On the last rear master spooge hole ream-out, I think I used a sewing needle clamped in a pair of needle nose pliers. See Ken Talbot's fine photo documentation under Tech Tips, Maintainance, Brakes. Take your time ... your brakes are nothing to fool around with.

On a lighter note ... Whooo hooo!!

I officially got my motorcycle endorsement this morning! Whenever

Legal is good ... hope you learned a bit about riding too. .

[Lucien Harpress]

Alas, I do not play guitar. I would like to learn, though. Maybe next summer (this summer being, of course, "buy a motorcycle", "learn to ride a motorcycle", and "learn to fix said motorcycle").

I've got the rear MC pulled apart as much as I can, reservoir, drain plug, and all. All the wires I was using were either too large, too weak (they bent), or both. I'll give the needle a try, I think. In another first, I actually used the tech section article BEFORE asking a question!