xs that won't start

[thewiz]

Well, Griz ...

I'm not real sure how to interpret the latest comp test numbers ... 'specially since I'm not there to watch the guage as it pumps up.

Also, I have never had a dead hole on any of the XS11's motors that I have ever worked on (knock on wood) ... so I'm not completely sure that what you're reporting actually indicates a bent valve in #1. If it were 60 psi instead of 120psi, it would be a no-brainer ... bent valve.

Maybe someone, and there are more than a few on here, who has had a bent valve can jump in here and report if the reading in #1 is low enough to indicate a bent valve. If no one does, I would Top Dead #1 on it's compression stroke and take my blow tip and stick it in the plug hole. The blow tip would seal up the cylinder and then I would squirt some air in there and listen for air leaking out into the intake or exhaust. If I couldn't hear anything, I would beg, buy or borrow a cylinder leak-down guage and that would tell the tale.

[thewiz]

One more thing, Griz .. throttle should be twisted open

If you weren't holding the throttle open during the compression test, you need to re-do it ... sorry I forgot to mention that ... and that may explain the different results this time around and I s'pose you can guess how it will affect the number 1 reading ... and it ain't what we're hopin' for.

[XJOK2PLAY]

Hey, Wiz...
Trbig had that ordeal w/ Bohn Frazer's bike recently... remember all that? He tried everything, and in the end it wound up being bent intake valves, thinking because something didn't go just right when Bohn adjusted his CCT.

He'd be one to ask, or go back and read his thread, "Got defeated this weekend."

Sounds to me like you've covered all the obvious. If the electricals aren't the problem, I think you're on the right track to go back to the baseline...fuel, fire, compression & timing. IIRC... he'd set up the marks, roll it around, and it would be out of time...
Good luck, guys.

[thewiz]

Oh yeah, XJOK ..

I followed TR's thread closely and actually posted on it a few times.

It kinda' looks to me like on Griz's most recent compression test that the throttle may have been closed ... that may explain why his #1 is not showing a much lower value than he has reported, sadly Wish I were there.... this would have been over some time ago.

[dbeardslee]

Griz - Did you ever make sure your ignition is setup properly? If you've got an 81 motor, you probably have something that looks like part #11 in this pic -



With the 2H7 TCI you need something that looks like part #1 in this pic -



If the ignition components aren't right it isn't going to run. You don't have to change all the ignition components - the pickup coil assembly will work with either TCI, but you have to have the mechanical advance with the 2H7. You may have issues with valves or valve clearances, but from what you describe it should still start. Varnae just had a motor with a 2.5" hole in the top of a piston, and believe it or not, it was still running. Not very well though .

[grizly6969]

You are correct the throtle was closed on all compression tests. I will rerun the compression when I get home on Sunday night. Don't have the kids so working on the bike should be easier.

Thanks for the pictures, it makes things easier when I am not sure what you guys are talking about. In going through my basket of extra parts, I found the 81 part was not on the bike, the correct one is.

[dbeardslee]

Griz - Have you checked the pickup coil gap?

[thewiz]

Was afraid of that Griz ...

all plugs should be out and throttle wide open .... then we'll know.

At least it sounds like your timing components match up. Woulda' been nice if that coulda' fixed it too ... Thx for the drawings, Dbeard ... I have NO manuals covering past '80 ... unless it's on Rockjoc's famous CD and I haven't located that since the move to NC. Small thing ...

ON another note ... rode 100 miles today, met a few Hogley guys.

Get this ... pull in to a station to get gas and I see this club biker lookin' my way. I'm thinkin' "He really hates me and my bike" ... NOPE ...instead, he walks over and asks me what it is so I give him a thumbnail intro to XS11s. He compliments it. He goes on and on tellin me about when he had a 70's 750 Honda but now he has this Hog and that one .... the gas station couldn't pump cuz of a power outage so a lengty conversation ensued about bikes and motorcycling ... it is nice not to feel the friction .... any two wheels are just fine, IMHO.

Later I met another NC Hogley rider in different place who, after havin' a beer and talkin some, ended up asking me to join them on the weekend to ride the Parkway .. speed limit's only 45mph, so they should be able to keep up ... lol .... that's what it's all about, brother.

[grizly6969]

alright #1 is at 85 #2 and #3 are at 95, and #4 is at 100. That is with the carbs off and all plugs out.
Thanks again

[thewiz]

Bummer, Griz ..

Of course the motor is cold BUT, I'm thinkin' it ain't gonna' fire on that low compression ....

Since the carbs are off, just to be sure, try rolling the motor over with a wrench to top dead number 1 cyl with both valves closed. Like I was sayin' in an earlier post, If you can, try using a blowtip to seal up the plug hole and give a squirt of air in there .... you're probably going to hear some air escaping somewhere .... either out the intake or into the exhaust ...

My best guess is a bent valve or valves ... sadly, it probably happened shortly after R&Ring the chain tensioner.

Has Andreas PM'd you with a head yet ... ? He usually keeps an eye on things. On the bright side, if you need one, he's reasonable and fair. Parts&More for the gasket set. Someone else may have valves by themselves but you will need a valve spring compressor to get it apart .. I bought mine at MikesXS for about 40 bucks.

It also occurred to me that you may have a head from your other motor that could be used too if it's still good ...

[grizly6969]

I've had non bike things to take care of but I had a few minutes tonight to work on the Yamaha.
#1 and #2 are blowing out air out of the intake side. This would imply a bent valve?

[thewiz]

Well, Griz ..

As long as you're sure that both cam lobes for that particular cyl. are 'up' indicating those valves are s'posed to be closed at that point, then it's hard to visualize senarios other than a bent valve. Might be carbon on face of the valve or seat .... but ... sounds like the hated bent valve syndrome.

[louilg]

Starting Problems

I see that most everyone thinks that you are experiencing electrical problems, and to some extent that is probably true. However, to me it sounds like you may have a fuel regulation problem, specifically the floats in the carbs. If you're getting too much fuel it will be hard to start and when you finally do get a spark, a backfire occurs. I would definitely check the floats in the carburators. If they haven't been rebuilt in a long time, consider getting carburator kits and using the enclosed gauge to check the float levels. Too much gas can cause your exhaust to heat up excessively once the plugs to spark. Once you've made sure that the floats are set correctly and the carbs don't have any clogged venturies, the bike should at least start and run roughly. Then it's just a matter of setting the vaccume on each carb and fine-tuning the fuel/air mix screws. I actually do this procedure by ear! You'll need vaccume gauges to set the carbs up correctly. Let me know if this helps. Good luck!

[CatatonicBug]

consider getting carburator kits and using the enclosed gauge to check the float levels.

What gauge are you talking about? No kit I have ever seen comes with any kind of gauge.

BTW - Welcome to the forum!

[louilg]

When you purchase a set of floats for the carbs, it should include a "gauge", which is just another word for a ruler to measure the float level.