Don't say "I told you so"...

[Lucien Harpress]

What else? Another new guy with carb issues. To bring everyone up to speed, here's the previous thread I started when I began having carb issues.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22596

Well, I ran half of a can of Seafoam through the bike, and I think it worked. Why? Because the bike runs worse NOW than it did before! I'm hoping that what happened is the Seafoam knocked somebit of crud loose in the carbs and allowed it to gum something up.

Long story short, I'm going to get the carbs off the bike again and tear into them a bit more than last time. Of course, that means more questions. Here's what it is THIS time.

- Apart from the mixture screws, is there anything that I need to pay special attention to getting back where it was? Any other screws I need to count the turns and such for, or can pretty much everything else in the carb just be put back where it was with a minimum of fuss?

- About the mixture screws- would it be the end of the world if I didn't mess with them? This is more of the same "I don't want to mess something up that is a bigger pain in the butt to fix later". Is there any way to (at least) get carb cleaner into where they are without taking them out?

- If I don't separate the carbs off the rack (keep them as a unit), will I still need to sync them again afterward? How much does getting into all the carbs mess up the sync, anyway?

I'm fully prepared to sync the carbs afterwards. I'm NOT prepared to spend the 70+ bucks for a actual sync gauge, though, so I think tomorrow I'm taking a trip to Lowes to grab parts for the "home-made" sync gauge mentioned in the FAQs here.

Thanks again for all the help.

[dbeardslee]

Make sure you keep the needle and seats together. They don't necessarily have to go back in the same carbs, but the same needles should stay with the seats they were with. You almost never take the carbs off the racks and you don't need to to clean them. Be careful with the gaskets and you can probably reuse them. Be very careful removing the pin that holds the floats on - don't want to break a post. In the bowl make sure you clean the little orifice that connects to the hole at the bottom of the bowl. A bread tie with the paper removed works well for cleaning that. Depends on what's plugged up as to whether or not the mixture screws need to be removed - probably not, but if you want them really clean... Anytime you open the carbs or adjust the mixtures it is wise to resynch. The synch should always be the last thing you do in a tuneup as lots of things can affect it.

[CatatonicBug]

Removing the mixture screws really is no more difficult than any other parts in there. Just count the turns and you'll be fine. It's not critical to separate the carbs, so that's no biggie. As for all the other parts, it's just a matter of removal, cleal thoroughly, and put it back where it came from. Be careful with the pilot jets, as they tend to resist removal. However, they have some really tine holes in them that really must be cleaned out. They are soft brass, so you need to have a screwdriver that will reach down into the slot all the way so you don't strip the heads. I took a long skinny screwdriver and ground down the edges so it would fit. Worked great!

It's always a good idea to re-sync whenever you take the carbs apart. Once the gunk is out of there, it will perfom differently than it did the last time it was done.

[psycoreefer]

You really should remove the mixture screws, if you don't its really hard to make sure all the gunk is out of the idle circuit. They aren't that easy to mess up, really just be careful not to turn them down really tight, use a small screw driver, like the smallest one you have and take it easy. Setting them again is just a matter of patience and your bike will run better after your done.

Syncing is also just a matter of patience, I have one vacuum gauge,doesn't have to be expensive, then I have a 4 way splitter for aquarium air lines, then I have 1 control valve for aquarium air line. I hook all four carbs to the splitter, then the splitter to control valve and then to the gauge. Use the control valve to get rid of the "bounce" in the gauge's needle, then simply turn one carb on at at time via the splitter and tune.

[dbeardslee]

Removing the mixture screws really is no more difficult than any other parts in there.

Unless of course they've got the plugs in place. Then you have to go to work on them with a drill press to get the plugs out. Chances for damaging the tops of the mixture screws is pretty good, so it's best to do that one with spare parts on hand.

[DGXSER]

Apart from the mixture screws, is there anything that I need to pay special attention to getting back where it was? Any other screws I need to count the turns and such for, or can pretty much everything else in the carb just be put back where it was with a minimum of fuss?

Everything else will go back good-n-tight in general. As I am sure has been stated before, spray the living crap out of the jets and other screw with somehting like PB Blaster (WD40 is NOT a substitute from experience)BEFORE you try to remove them. Do pay attention to the order fo assembly when removing things. and ask LOTS of questions when you have them BEFORE you try something that screws it up. With all the expert guidance on this site, a space shuttle might become childs play! So you can do this for sure.

About the mixture screws- would it be the end of the world if I didn't mess with them? This is more of the same "I don't want to mess something up that is a bigger pain in the butt to fix later". Is there any way to (at least) get carb cleaner into where they are without taking them out?

Just count the turns to LIGHTLY seated before removing. This is not going to be the end all absolute setting that will work best when your done though, just a good starting point. If your going to the trouble of pulling the carbs and pulling the bowls and the floats out, then get the rest out to. My opinon is that would include the pilot air jet in the inlet bell, the main jet, the pilot jet, the float and the float valve and seat. Also pull the top off the carb and remove the slide and the needle, and the pushout the emulsion tube. Then, clean, clean, and clean.

If I don't separate the carbs off the rack (keep them as a unit), will I still need to sync them again afterward? How much does getting into all the carbs mess up the sync, anyway?

Most do not remove them form the rack, but yep it will effect the synch as you will change the vacuum being pulled by changing the carb function when you clean it. A synch is never a bad thing

I can tell you I never had any luck with carbs before this bike and the help here. And the feeling of accomplishment of finally getting carbs set up and working correctly is AWESOME!!!

[SFerinTEXAS]

FYI under the mixture screw springs are a tiny washer and o ring. Watch for them or you will lose them

[CatatonicBug]

FYI under the mixture screw springs are a tiny washer and o ring. Watch for them or you will lose them

Good point. A jewelers screwdriver helps to remove them if they don't come out on their own.

[Ken Talbot]

As long as tour '80 has its original '80 carbs, the mixture screws are the later model blunt end type, which are not very prone to getting stuck and breaking off. You still don't want to crank them in with a gorilla grip, but you don't need to get all sweated up about it either.

Leaving the carbs on the racks is okay, as long as you still take everything else off/out for a thorough cleaning. Remember the part about eye protectin when you're squirgint cleaner at high pressure through small orifices!

No matter how you approach it, you will need to sync the carbs. The bread tie pre-sync should get you close enough to get it started, but it will result in a very high idle speed - as mucgh as 4 to 5 thousand rpms. Know where the idle screw is and be ready to turn it down.

Now comes the fun part...

[Crazcnuk]

I always take mine off the rack. It's 4 extra screws each carb. An impact driver is sometimes necessary.

The carbs can't really be mixed up, they only go together (succesfully) one way.

The best way, to start, is to take one apart. Check everything, soak the parts that need soaking, etc.

Then while it sits, start the 2nd one. After the 2nd you can put #1 back together, if you wish, then start 3, etc.

This way you always have one or two that are together, for reference.

There are not really that many parts in these carbs, and all of them simply tighten down, except the mixture screws. If your carbs are badly in need of cleaning, then where those screws are now is irrelevant. When you put the together, put them at 1.5 turns from lightly seated and adjust from there.

You can get some pretty good rebuild kits for $50-$60 for all 4, that will replace many of the parts that you need to clean anyway.

It's also very handy to have a pen and paper handy to jot down what your carbs have in the way of jets, needles, tubes, etc. This way if some PO messed with them we will know right away, which can save some time.

[Lucien Harpress]

Unless of course they've got the plugs in place. Then you have to go to work on them with a drill press to get the plugs out. Chances for damaging the tops of the mixture screws is pretty good, so it's best to do that one with spare parts on hand.

I was checking the bike over tonight, and this appears to be the case. I also have the unfortunate situation of not owning a drill press, either. I can get to one- but not for a few months. It looks like the mixture screws are going to stay put for the time being.

As for everything else, though- all the jets are coming out for sure, and I'd like to get the tops off the carbs this time as well. I'm also pretty cheap, so unless I royally screw something up, I'm hoping for a simple, (relatively) uneventful teardown, cleaning, and rebuild.

I also plan on only doing one carb at a time- much less chance of mixing parts up that way.

Thanks for all the help. Like I said, I need to build me a sync-gauge first. I'll probably need to get a few more gallons of carb cleaner while I'm at it....

[latexeses]

A set of good fitting screwdrivers is the best way to keep from buggering a screw. File a larger screwdriver to fit if need be. Screwdrivers are cheaper than carburator parts.

[tarzan]

It is important to remove thsoe plugs.And it is not necessary to have a drill press.Just take a drill bit(like 1/8") and stub it way up into the drill so that only a little sticks out.Then carefully drill through plug very lightly.The plug is only like 1/8" thick.Once you have a hole you can screw a metal screw into it a couple turns and pull it out.They arent in there that tight.
BTW,I have a drill press and havent used it for plug removal.I got a little easy out kit that has a center drill on one end and a tapered extractor on the other end.It is slick.You drill with center drill end till it breaks through,then turn the bit around in the drill and run the motor real slow while pulling up .The plug comes right out.I have done this to several stes of carbs and havent even ruined one pilot screw.It is simple.
Sorry about the rambling,I just think it is very important to clean the pilot circuit well and adjust the idle circuits.
Good luck. Rick

[fredintoon]

I was checking the bike over tonight, and this appears to be the case. I also have the unfortunate situation of not owning a drill press, either. I can get to one- but not for a few months. It looks like the mixture screws are going to stay put for the time being. - - -

Hi Mike,
how do you get through life without a drill press? Go buy one of your very own. Most likely even a Harbor Freight $75 bargain drill press will do everything you need. And you really have to take those plugs out and remove the needles etc. to blast carb cleaner down those little passages. As your plugs are still there those needles have never been removed since the bike was built so there's 30 years worth of crud down there.

[cywelchjr]

I was checking the bike over tonight, and this appears to be the case. I also have the unfortunate situation of not owning a drill press, either. I can get to one- but not for a few months. It looks like the mixture screws are going to stay put for the time being.

I have done several of those plugs with just a hand held drill. Still used the original mixture screws too. Just be careful to not go too far through the plug (you can go too far with the drillpress too). Don't try to drill the whole thing out, just about half and you can pull it out with a sheet metal screw after than with little to no trouble at all.