Pods vs Stock air box

[randy]

Oops, missed that smooth bore part! IIRC, screws on the intake side of the carb control air, screws on the manifold side of the carb control fuel.

[thewiz]

What about the rain and PODS ..

and wet weather in general? I think I have read here somewhere that you can't ride in the rain without the motor ingesting water? Not that I intend to be a regular rain-rider, but is this true, false or exaggerated, you POD guys? I have lived here NC for roughly six weeks and it has rained nearly every day at some point or another .... hard to avoid it completely

[thewiz]

Had I known ...

this rule of thumb ..

screws on the intake side of the carb control air, screws on the manifold side of the carb control fuel.
__________________

I would not have had to study the book to figure out how these carbs worked .... Thx, Randy. I'm still not sure I know much about 'em either and the smooth bore gurus on this site are few and far between or silent

[fredintoon]

- - - I think I have read here somewhere that you can't ride in the rain without the motor ingesting water? Not that I intend to be a regular rain-rider, but is this true, false or exaggerated, you POD guys? - - -

Hi Wiz,
you know, that had never occurred to me? I was well into a rally last Sunday when the intermittent rain turned into a downpour. I went from "this is no longer any fun" to "f**k this for a game of cowboys" when the engine started misfiring. I made a U-turn and turned towards home thinking the ignition trigger wires had failed again or the carbs had bunged up or WTF else could it be? Got out of the rainstorm while hoping the remaining cylinders would get me home, ran a few miles in the dry and we are running on all 4 again. The dreaded and traditionally unfindable intermittent fault! Well, I have not found what was causing the fault and it hasn't happened since. Could the fix be as simple as not going out in the rain?
And no, putting the airbox back on is not possible as I found it a new home.

[cywelchjr]

Hi Wiz,
you know, that had never occurred to me? I was well into a rally last Sunday when the intermittent rain turned into a downpour. I went from "this is no longer any fun" to "f**k this for a game of cowboys" when the engine started misfiring. I made a U-turn and turned towards home thinking the ignition trigger wires had failed again or the carbs had bunged up or WTF else could it be? Got out of the rainstorm while hoping the remaining cylinders would get me home, ran a few miles in the dry and we are running on all 4 again. The dreaded and traditionally unfindable intermittent fault! Well, I have not found what was causing the fault and it hasn't happened since. Could the fix be as simple as not going out in the rain?
And no, putting the airbox back on is not possible as I found it a new home.

I don't know, but mine has the airbox and does the same thing in the rain. I did find last weekend when changing the oil that I have a hole in the left side cover, so maybe water is getting into the pickup area, which I have heard rumors of causing problems. For now I'm going to JBWeld a patch for it, but then I'm going to look around for a replacement, I'm sure andreas has one available

[trbig]

I ride in torrential monsoon-like downpours while trucks pass and blast me with enough water to nearly knock me off the bike.. and the bike runs BETTER under these conditions. By the time the water gets to the motor through the carbs, it's atomized just like the fuel is. I think that mist gets to the cylinders and flash expands and increases compression.. because it sure runs good then. You also need to remember that water is Hydrogen and Oxygen.. both of which like to burn. It's all a bad myth that won't go away.

Fred.. when you take your bike in the rain, or the car wash, lean down and listen.. and I bet you'll hear the ticking of the spark grounding to your valve cover.. and may even see it. If you dare, grab the wire with your hands and you'll find out in a hurry if this is true. The water helps the connection... then when it dries, it follows the right path again. You can remove your spark plug boot and put some heat shrink over the wire and shrink it down.. this will give you added protection/insulation against this happening.

[randy]

Yes, engines love cooler, denser air both of which come with rain. But water 'burning'? The hydrogen & oxygen would have to be sperated for them to be flammable. Otherwise, being a fireman would give a whole new meaning to that profession

I too have experienced the rain misfires and I know it's the wires getting wet, although I don't grab them to find out I just wait.

[cywelchjr]

Yes, engines love cooler, denser air both of which come with rain. But water 'burning'? The hydrogen & oxygen would have to be sperated for them to be flammable. Otherwise, being a fireman would give a whole new meaning to that profession

I too have experienced the rain misfires and I know it's the wires getting wet, although I don't grab them to find out I just wait.

I have also used water to clean carbon out of engines and you can stream quite a bit into the intake and still run fine, I would think it would be very hard to get that much water going into the intake when riding in the rain, and frankly I think it would be a bit hard to BREATH while riding if it were raining that hard. It's gotta be electrical IMHO to match the symptoms.

[thewiz]

I ain't quite ready to leave this POD thread alone yet....

cuz I really hate pulling these smooth bores carbs with the air box. Probably why it doesn't run as good as it should, do ya' think?

DennyP, where did ya' get your Emgos and do you still have the part number? I found an Ebay store that has some for in the 40 dollar range. Does that sound about right? I'm seeing the oval style K&Ns for close to 200 bucks at BikeBandit. Ouch !! That's a big price discrepancy for comparable quality as some have said here.

Also ...stands to reason that if my VM33s fit the factory airbox boots, a set of filters meant for BS34s should fit the VM33s as well, right? If A equals B, and B equals C, then A equals C .... or somethin' like that

[DenyP]

Re: Emgo filters

I guess you get what you pay for! There is a flange on the seat that blocks air passage to the air jets located on the intake of the carbs (Hitachi, don't know about the Maconi 1100 carbs) So some of this flange has to be ground or cut away. They were installed on my XS850 for just a few weeks and the cone on the pod at no.1 carb came appart and was lost on the freeway. I understand this is not a problem with the K&N's. I would have been farther ahead to flush the price of those filters down the toilet - at least I wouldn't have put any labor into them!
Pulling the carbs with an air box is a pain. My reason for this string - I was trying to decide if there was another reason to expend the cash, and deal with the jetting issues for pods.

Deny

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Wiz,

These are on PNM site:

OVAL CHROME CAP AIR FILTER
54mm
Fits XS1100 (79-81)


$12.00US EA.

Part#15-0035

These are on MIkesXS.net

54mm. XS performance Pod Filters
54mm. XS performance Pod Filter - Tapered Oval style with Chrome end cap.
Pod is an improved replica (Dyno & flow bench developed) of the most popular
brand on the market. Features molded in internal stack, no step rubber mount flange and Chrome end cap. Filter is supplied dry but washable filtration material may be oiled for improved dust filtration . Filter body is 71mm. (2.8") deep x 74mm. (2.91") wide x 101mm. (4") high (at base).


Fits: 1980-84 stock Mikuni BS34 CV Carbs + some Mikuni TM aftermarket carbs. Part #15-0035$16.00 USD Ea

Both of these are the OVAL style, and have been reported that they do not have the offending lip, like the smaller ROUND CONE ones that I put on mine a few years ago, see the tech tips regarding the velocity stack mods for INDY filters. These mounting mods help preserve the integrity of the cheap little round lipped filters so that the cones won't fall of of them!!

The MikesXS ones state that they are washable, and similar to the K&N brand!
I still think the Velocity stack mod even with this type of filter can help in the low end response by providing a longer tunnel for the air flow from the filter before it gets to the carb!
T.C.

PS....Wiz, you haven't replied to my PM?

[Mr. Schweer]

"I still think the Velocity stack mod even with this type of filter can help in the low end response by providing a longer tunnel for the air flow from the filter before it gets to the carb!"
T.C.

Um, I'm admittedly NOT a bike engine, carb, intake guru or anything, however, I think that this is about the most wrong statement I've seen in a while. Tunnel rams work at wide open throttle in high rpm applications. They KILL low end torque. The longer tunnel or path creates high engine speed velocity into the cylinder.
On the flip side, the Chevy TPI engines of the late eighties, early ninties had extremely short runners to help develop low end torque and caused the engines to run out of steam at 4600-4800 rpm.
The same principle applies to velocity stacks. The Ramcharges (the Dodge factory race teams of the '50's and '60's) used HUGE velocity stacks and extremely long intake manifold extensions to get high rpms out of the 392 Chrysler hemis.
Like I said, I'm not a bike guru, but I have built several high horse, high rpm engines and the dynamic principles are the same. If there is something I'm missing, please correct me.

That being said, I'm thinking about velocity stacks and pod filters for my XS11, but for the purpose of better TOP end breathing.

[thewiz]

Mr Schweer ..

I just last week installed the pods from PNM as on TC's link. Performance is acceptable to me low and high end. Once I have a few more hours on it, I'll pull the plugs an see how they've burned in. On the top end I let off before 100 and it was still pullin' strongly... so really don't know how much is left. Long as the plugs ain't powder white, I'm just goin' with the jetting already in there ...

[GARTHXS]

rain

I don't think its a big problem , I rode in sidways rain from warner springs all the way home , about 75 miles and no problems with running , althought it will start a little rough when the pods are wet even at the car wash bbutbut give

[trbig]

althought it will start a little rough when the pods are wet even at the car wash

That's because you're coils/wires don't like getting wet.. it has nothing to do with wet pod filters.


Tod