Turn signals making me crazy

[rlundy]

OK, I've started work again after a layoff of a few months. Decided to tackle my turn signals again. The problem is that when you turn the bike on all 4 turn signals light up. A few months ago I disassembled the switch at the handlebar cleaned it as best I could. No effect. I picked up a new switch on fleabay a month ago. so what I've done:

1. pulled the connections, cleaned and used dialectric grease, connected new switch (the new switch was guaranteed working FWIW). Same problem.
2. Pulled the connection to the self canceller, cleaned, used grease, same problem.
3. Pulled the switch out of the curcuit, all 4 lights still light up
4. Pulled the blinker relay out. All four still light up. I have two relays, a new automotive 3 prong and the old auto style that came with the bike. same behavior with both.
5. unplugged the self canceller-all 4 still light up

Any more troubleshooting ideas? I've disconnected everything at the same time and all 4 still light up. Yes, I have the nice circuit diagram, but I'm not that good at electrics, short of cleaning, replacing and checking voltage with a multimeter. The bike has a new Topcat fuse panel (everything lights up a lot brighter!). I have not touched the big white connector behind the fuse panel, as everything else is working well.

Stumped in St. Petersburg.


Robert

[randy]

Sounds to me like you've got dual element bulbs in all four signal pods, running lights are supposed to be front only. Did PO change the pods? Check your bulbs.

[rlundy]

Randy I had one bulb out, took it to the local discount autoparts and let the guy match up a bulb. Went ahead and replaced all 4. I didn't know these bikes had running lights. I really hope this is that easy and I'm that stupid.

The pods look original. So basically I should have dual element bulbs in the fronts and single element in the rear?

Thanks for the answer, Let me do some checking.

[rlundy]

Alright, went and checked. All the bulbs are marked "1156", two different brands, one china and one GE/Hungary. All are single element bulbs. All four burn when the key switch is turned on.

My question would still be, if the switch is removed from the circuit, could they all still burn? because they are acting as running lights? And I need dual element bulbs in someway for the signals to flash?

[randy]

The pods may be original, but the rear ones should not light except when the signal switch is operated. Either there is crossed wiring, on the rear it may be plugged into the tail light circuit, or the previous owner changed the guts in the pods to use dual element bulbs. Did you pull the bulbs? Do they all have two pins at the base?

[fvincent]

All signals on

At the rear of the bike, the turn signals are not grounded. sounds like the hot wire for each rear signal is tied together. Thus, when you turn on the left blinker, the left side of the entire system is energized, along with the right side, and vice versa. Unplug the back bulbs and check the front signal lights individually. They should come on one at a time when switched left or right, but may not blink because of the lack of current draw to activate the flasher unit, unless you have changed the flasher unit to an electronic one. If this is the case, make sure the rear signal wires have two different colors to each light, I think its green and white to each side). If you do and it still a activates all 4 lights, the hots are tied together somewhere between the rear signals and the flasher unit. The front signals have one turn supply, and one running supply, along with a chassis ground, (1157s'). Good luck!

Floyd
80G

[fvincent]

Also

Also now that I think a little, If the two wires going to the front signals are shorted, all four would come on with the running lights.

Floyd

[rlundy]

Randy-

All the bulbs have two pins at the base. Is this correct? which type bulbs should I have have front and rear? All are single element 1156 automotive bulbs.

Fvincent-

I have found where the bundle of wires makes up under the metal tab at the rear under the seat. I suppose I can start pulling connectors to see what feeds what (tail, blinker, maybe brake?).

Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it.

[rlundy]

OK, at the rear of the bike, under the seat (and under a metal tab), there are 4 connections-2 single and 2 that go into one. When I pull each of the singles, it turns off one bulb. When I pull one from the 2 into one connector I can turn off each side.

Because of the one into two, it looks like the bike is wired for rear daytime running lights, and the singles are the turn turn signals. If the bike were originally from cananda would've it have had DRLs like this? All the paperwork I have starts in 1992 in and around Ft. Lauderdale/Miami. Its a very early '78, serial number around 5200 if that makes any difference. The connector make-up at the rear looks stock, all the connector types match, etc.

Should I just go get some dual element bulbs? What number, 1157?

[randy]

1157 is a dual element bulb. 1156 is a single. The STOCK fronts are 1157, the rears 1156. Can you can see the number of pins in the sockets?

[rlundy]

I'll run out and get some 1157 bulbs (4) tomorrow morning. The way the rear is wired, its looks like the DRL's apply to the rear as well. There are two hot wires to the rear signals and they look original. Either way I'll have enough bulbs to try in the corect combos until this works. I should have it running again by next weekend to check the flasher.

Thanks again Randy. Is it too late to grab a bearing?

[randy]

The latest batch of bearings are gone. When more are available, I'll post.

[oseaghdha]

Randy-

All the bulbs have two pins at the base. Is this correct? which type bulbs should I have have front and rear? All are single element 1156 automotive bulbs.

Fvincent-

I have found where the bundle of wires makes up under the metal tab at the rear under the seat. I suppose I can start pulling connectors to see what feeds what (tail, blinker, maybe brake?).

Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it.

The 1156 Bulb only has one pin. Pin being the actual contact portion of the base, not the retaining pins which is typical of both bulb types.

<-------CONTACT

1157 Bulb

Unless someone rewired it, you should have a GRN or BRN and BLK only going to each light.

[randy]

Also, the 1156 and 1157 bulbs should not interchange in the same socket. if you examine the locating pins on the brass base, you'll see that the 1157 has the pins offset so it will only go in one way. That feature lines up the dual element pins when the bulb is locked in. I can't believe I'm writing this.

[79XS11F]

The turn signal posts should be grounded under the rear fender with black wires with large loops on one end and a bullet connection on the other. The turn signals are in rubber dampers so grounding is necessary. These black wires go into the boot under the seat at the front of the rear frame bridge. Then one wire from each turn signal goes to the same boot and goes into the brown for left and green for right. At the rear there should be only one wire coming out of the end of the mounting post. If you have two then you have front turn signal bodies installed at the rear.
Rob