Vetter Headlight

[cruiser]

What started all this is the purchase and now installing the Vetter. With everything hooked up I found the headlight very dim. Further examination found the ground terminal on lamp plug-in to be somewhat melted and poor connection.
I purchased another plug-in at auto store and wired everything up. It improved 30% but still dimmer than my stock headlight which I was happy with on the brightness. The fluting on my stock headlight and the vetter seem identical both are Kotto brand and they both have the same H4 55W60 bulb?
Next step I guess will be to try my stock headlight to the vetter plug-in and see if maybe I’m losing some amperage through the vetter wiring harness?
Then try the higher watt halogen for $10. But am a bit concerned with the ground circuit already melted and adding a higher watt bulb will maybe increase that problem.
I seldom ride at night but when I do would be nice to see as well as possible.

[oseaghdha]

Hey Wa,

I knew you meant the fuseblock, but that was why I also posted about was a 30 AMP fuse really necessary for the stronger bulb vs. just going up to a 20 vs. the OEM 10!? The Fuseblock should be able handle an extra 20 amp!?

These are the specs from the manufacturer of the fuseblock. I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer. I understand that with 6 fuse slots that this limit would mean 5 fuses of 10 amps, and 1 of 15 amps to be max with all 6 slots filled!

Aside from the MAIN fuse, our bikes use 4 fused circuits, Ign, Head, Turn, Brake, at 10, 10, 20, 10 amps, total of 50. Changing the Head to a 20 takes the total to 60 amps, leaving 2 slots blank. If you use one for the AUX terminals, that could take it up to 70 amps.

I think I've heard of a few folks who have actually wired the MAIN 30 amp thru this fuseblock without any problems, meltdowns or fires. I understand about a certain amount of electricity running thru a circuit would create some heat due to resistance, but EACH fuse circuit is separate in this fuseblock.

So....perhaps some electrical GURU could explain why there would be this 65 amps total limit on the design of the fuseblock!?
T.C.

The failure mode will be melting, so I think the total throughput should be rated in Watts, not amps. Also, just because you have a 30A fuse, does not mean you are pulling 30A through it. That's MAX rating. A 120W circuit is only pulling 10 amps on a 12V circuit, with no resistance loss.

I think the fuse block rating is ambiguous, since they do not share a common bus. It could be interpreted as 65A per branch.

If you are burning things up, it's going to be a function of resistance, ie; bad connections. P=I*E

[oseaghdha]

Woops

AND I=V/R

[DiverRay]

On the Vetters I've put on bike, I ALWAYS added a 12 gauge ground wire from the inside harness to the mount bolt. I didn't have any electrical problems after that. All it takes is a small hole in the bottom of the left side, run a wire through, and then crimp a 1/4" lug connector to fit the rear mount bolt.

[wa407mpp]

I was under the impression that one of the purposes of this forum was to share information and experiences in order to help others maintain and improve their motorcycles. I only give advice or endorse a modification with which I personally have had first hand experience, and I make it a point to share all the information, good and bad. I will not put myself in the position of making a suggestion and and knowingly withhold negative information which could have fatal consequences to someone else. When I say those fuse holders over time will fail under this application it is because I experienced these failures first hand, at night on the highway, at speed, 8 years after installing the new fuse block. It was only God, and the moon reflecting off the fog lines that saved me. The XJ does have separate main fuse holder and my E doesn't and that may or may not make a difference in whether the fuse holder will fail, however it has nothing to do with my recommendations. These bike were built 30 plus years ago with the technology of the time, adding 30 years of wear, ageing, and vibration, and then increasing the load on the circuit with modern lighting is something neither Yamaha nor Krag Vetter could have anticipated. Now a little electricity 101, the amp rating given in the manuals are for stock bikes, to the headlight, when you add a fairing you increase the amp draw, because of the extra wiring and plugs, again 30yr. old technology, then add a Halogen bulb, another an increase in amperage, it only makes sense to me, to do a little upgrading on the wiring circuit just to be on the safe side and to keep yourself out of the dark. After all it could happen on a moonless night,with God looking the other way.

[cruiser]

While I seldom start a thread and sparingly provide input to threads I read just about everything written here.
This site is filled with a multitude of knowledge and past experience from all that take the time write here for the rest of us to absorb and use. With that said, I come here to read and tap those experiences and input from others so I can determine what MY plan of action should be.
All input to this thread has been valuable to me and I will sift through it and decide what works for me. All points made here are valid and useful and there are bound to be differences of opinion, especially when talking electrical issues.
Wa407, your posts have been most on target to my questions and I appreciate that, DiverRay brought something out that I had considered by adding the extra ground wire and the rest were also helpful suggestions and thoughts, Thanks.
In my application I have all separate in-line fuses with 12 gauge wire but none of you knew that. Ya, it’s not pretty but is hidden and has worked without failure for 5 years.

TC, the boxes you provide are a great service here and I too expect to send for one after putting it off for years. I just may leave my headlight circuit separate from the box to be safe and that’s my choice to which I might not have even thought of without the input provided.

The fix…..I added the extra ground wire to the Vetter frame and now have light back to what I had with the stock light to which I had been happy with. Hopefully this will keep the ground side from melting and I will leave the H4 bulb “as is” for now. I cleaned all connections on the Vetter harness and dielectric compound to all. The fuse will stay the same but if Iupgrade the bulb. will also upgrade the fuse.
To Dan- I have the clearance on this Vetter V for the plug-in without punching out the back, it’s very close but ok.
The fairing does not enclose the headlight although it is in a plastic housing, hopefully there is enough wind exposure for heat transfer without drilling to vent.
Finally, I rarely ride at night around here because the deer population rivals the human population. The stress level takes the enjoyment out of night riding which I use to love.
Thanks again for all the responses
Arlan

OK, let’s move on and RIDE!!!!

[DGXSER]

Cruiser, I am not trying to extend any "controversy" in your thread, but merely educate myself here.

Typical electrical panels have a max panel or block rating due to the sizing of the main conductors or bus in the panel. Since the fuse block that TC sells does not have a main bus or a main feed to the block, would not each individual fuse have a max rating and that is the ONLY max rating applicable to the fuses? I understand the bike has a max total amps the alternator can produce and therefore is available for use. If I understand this correctly though, the only difference between the fuse block TC sells and just wiring a loose individual fuse to each wire set as some have, is that the fuses are held in a nice littel row by the plastic box. So again, why would there be any max rating to that block?

[wa407mpp]

I'll try to answer you without starting another war. The fact that they are held together in one neat little box is one cause of the weak point, any heat generated by excess amperage is shared by the fuses on either side of the one over heating and the thin plastic divider melts and then burns, the other reason is the are to light duty for high amperage headlights. The fuse holders I'm using are made of a heavier rubberized plastic with weather proof caps, this allows for better air circulation around the holders and less chance of melting. I'm not saying T.C.'s fuse holder isn't a good holder, I'm just saying from my experience,for high amp Applications it is not the best way to go.

[TopCatGr58]

No WAR was perceived!

Hey again Wa,

As Cruiser so gratiously stated, this has been a great discussion. I, too, appreciate your knowledge and experience. I can see the problem with heat with too high of an amperage load running thru the fuseblock, and like you said, with increased heat on one, it could also cause increased heat next to it, and that would cause increased resistance, causing more heat, etc.!

I think many of us have learned from this, as how it's supposed to work, and I will be sure remember to mention that if folks are running a fairing, and extra wattage/amperage bulbs, that they think about a separate fuse/holder to run the headlight circuit thru vs. the replacement fuseblock.
T.C.