Kick it for a while, then split

[3Phase]

The starter clutch is going bad and the bike's too heavy to push.

Should I get a kickstarter and forget about it until something else breaks?

Should I split the cases, change the starter clutch and forget about anachronistic kicks?

Should I take a private jet to Washington, D.C. to inform Congress that the entire starter clutch will fail! if I do not receive a trillion-dollar bailout to tide me over for a couple of months?


Regards,

Scott (a captain of industriosity and a veritable hub of vital economic paucity)

[skids]

It could just be complicated by cold weather and thick oil. Maybe you have already read the relavant info? Try warming the crankcase with a space heater for many hours before you hit the starter... Or just wait...summer is rapidly approaching!

[XSPastor]

Hmmmm...

He lives in Southern California. I doubt cold weather is a factor.

[bikerphil]

I've read on here of someone adding Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase to clean up the gunk in the starter clutch. Might be worth a shot before tearing things down.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Scott,

Are you running SYNTH oil? That along with other folks in colder climes have had problems with it being too slippery for it to grab effectively.

I know you're an electrical guru as well, so I don't mean to question your knowledge/skill. Folks have also commented about a similar problem due to a modest lack of power to the starter, and once they cleaned up the contacts and had a strong battery, it spun the starter more vigorously and more effectively grabbed the starter clutch. JAT!?

I believe folks have commented that a kick starter can be added without splitting the cases, and as long as you know that you're doing this to bypass the electric starter, but have a strong battery, that would probably be the easier solution.

Just some folks try to use the kickstarter as a replacement for a weak battery, and don't realize that when it gets too weak, it may spin the engine but not properly energize the TCI. I know you know this, not trying to insult your intelligence, I'm just stating it for the Newbies and such!
T.C.

[3Phase]

Marveling

I'll try some of that Mystery Oil!

The engine's been mildly 'baked'; found and photographed a nice, deep, tan going on inside the case when I put in the new clutch plates and springs instead of the clean, shiny, aluminum in all the Tech Tip photographs so it's possible there's varnish built up in the starter clutch.

The starter clutch has been going bad since I got the bike last summer and it's gotten progressively worse. Now, even in 'Sunny' (HA!) Southern California with fresh winter-grade 10W40 Valvoline motorcycle oil, it's to the point that it just lets the starter motor spin a bunch of times until it feels like engaging and turning over the engine. When I went back out to Aridzona for the last couple of weeks it was almost too cold to start; just made light grinding noises and wouldn't catch for several minutes at a time in the morning. Fortunately, the engine starts really easily once the starter clutch deigns to work and it will usually work when the engine is warmed up. No, a kicker won't start the bike if the battery is dead or too low <grin> but it won't start with no starter clutch and no kicker, either.

I might have to drive my car!

You know, I took another look at the pictures of the work on Sailor's bike and that slug in the gray t-shirt and green beanie looks like he should be pushing and kicking a lot more stuff anyway. I'll see if I can find a kicker until I get the money to rebuild the engine, transmission, and middle-drive before I split the cases.

Man... I really don't want to do this. <sigh>


Regards,

Scott

[fredintoon]

CCAs?

Hi Scott,
good luck with begging money from Washington, betcha that's reserved for the special friends of those doling it out.
However, even an electrical Guru can get too close to a problem. Have you tried
hooking the bike's electrics up to a big fat car battery with hundreds of CCAs to put out? I did just that to my XS11SG and my slipping starter clutch stopped slipping right away.

[3Phase]

Hi Scott,
good luck with begging money from Washington, betcha that's reserved for the special friends of those doling it out.

Special friends? That would explain so many things... okay, scratch the private jet! I'll ride the short, yellow, bus to D.C. if that's what it takes!

However, even an electrical Guru can get too close to a problem. Have you tried
hooking the bike's electrics up to a big fat car battery with hundreds of CCAs to put out? I did just that to my XS11SG and my slipping starter clutch stopped slipping right away.

No, I haven't tried a car battery but that's a good thought!

I've been keeping a wary eye on the charging system ever since the Voltage Regulator failed high, turning a new battery into a unbuffered, tri-state (AZ/CA/NV), electrolyte dispersal system that eventually let all the magic purple smoke out of almost every diode on the bike. The even-newer Sears Diehard AGM battery has been working happily with the replacement Regulator/Rectifier and battery voltage stayed a little over 13V at rest out in Aridzona.

I just went down to the garage and the battery was at 13.25V after sitting for three days. Turning on the ignition and using the starter dropped the voltage to 11.5V cranking volts
(naturally, the starter clutch caught and worked flawlessly at 10:30 at night )
and the battery came back up to about 13V when I turned off the ignition.

I haven't looked too closely at XS1100 kickers, yet, but I think I read somewhere that the XS850 is the one to get; has a folding, spring-loaded, kicker that won't flop around and gack your leg when you're riding.


Regards,

Scott

[GARTHXS]

rebuild

Hey Scott a cheaper alternative is another motor. The wiz has one that needs cams and I have an extra set of cams as well.

[3Phase]

Hey Scott a cheaper alternative is another motor. The wiz has one that needs cams and I have an extra set of cams as well.

You know, for some peculiar reason the ease and simplicity of splitting the cases has not been mentioned once.

I'll see what a kicker and Marvel Mystery Oil do and keep that in mind. I've been thinking about getting another engine and rebuilding the one I have as time and money allow. I just went through my fuel receipts and my gas mileage dropped way down during this last trip to Aridzona: 25MPG. It's acting like Crazcnuk's bike before he bent the valves. I hope it's just the pickup coils needing some TLC as I want to try to make both the MoM and Yosemite Rallys. That would be fun but, at the moment, I don't have the time to do anything but put in a kicker and re-grow my hair and beard, again. I'll cut 'em when the bike's fixed and running reliably, again.

Last time I got pretty shaggy: mothers pulled their children off the sidewalks and hugged them close at supermarkets; dogs whined and tucked their tails (or began panting -- what was THAT all about?! ); police focused multiple pairs of steely MK1 eyeballs everywhere I went... you know the drill.


Regards,

Scott

[GARTHXS]

eagle tom

Didn't he say he changed the starter clutch by going fom the bottom , no splitting needed

[3Phase]

&lt;lightbulb goes on overhead&gt;

Didn't he say he changed the starter clutch by going fom the bottom , no splitting needed

You know, Garth, I think he did mention something about that; can't remember what he said though! I'm getting a kicker and starter clutch from Andreas so I'll see if it's possible Real Soon Now(tm). I should make a run down south to see what y'all are up to before I tear into the engine.

Regards, and congratulations to you and Wiz on the new bikes!

Scott

[trbig]

You know, for some peculiar reason the ease and simplicity of splitting the cases has not been mentioned once.

I'll mention it then!! lol. I prefer to split the cases.. that way I can check everything out and find what needs replacing. If you find someone who's done it and nothing really needs replacing, it is possible to pull the motor, split the cases, and get it back running in a day.. but you better allow for two.

And sorry to tell you... Starter clutches DO require splitting the cases.


Tod

[Elevenator]

Before Mystery Oil...try Risolone. Drain a quart and replace with Risolone. I;ve had starter clutches in the past that this had fixed...albeit temporarily.

Once you get it started ride it several miles until the oil is fully to operating temp. Let the bike cool down overnight and try starting it next morning. You'll know then if it worked.

You can get it at any auto parts or even Wal-Mart. It's in a yellow quart and cost about $7. The oil itself is blue and meets all manufacturers specs for engine lubricant.

I've also noticed the addition of Risolone makes an Eleven tranny shift much better.

[Elevenator]

Sorry I mispelled it.