Kick it for a while, then split

[boyat68]

3Phase:

Funny thing about motorcycle batteries. The smallnest of the size and plate density does not lend to a large starting amperage. If the water level is low, not enough plate density is there to produce the necessary amperage to spin the starter and engine. The battery can read 13.0+ volts, but will not spin the beast up. I would say to check the water level and see if you have boiled off a good dolop in each cell to preclude the starting. Adding the required water and re-charging for about 30 mins. may solve your problem.

[3Phase]

I'll mention it then!! lol. I prefer to split the cases..

Alrightalrightalrightalrightalready!

After I finish cleaning up and disposing of all the tree trimmings I cut and bundled I'm going to find that Tech Tip to make an adapter for the engine stand. This should be fun!

I have to wait for parts before I reassemble the engine but I need to know what kind of shape everything is in before I take the bike out on any more road trips and the rain is providing a perfect excuse for some major work.

I would say to check the water level and see if you have boiled off a good dolop in each cell to preclude the starting. Adding the required water and re-charging for about 30 mins. may solve your problem.

AGM battery == me no can checkee water.

I just performed another static and cranking voltage test and everything is still okay after sitting, cranking, then not riding. I've put the battery on the charger to keep it that way.

I can't find my handydandy inductive-pickup Amp gauge to check starter current draw but there's no significant voltage droop during cranking as there would be if the battery was bad and just holding a surface charge. I cleaned the starter commutator/brushes and hand-packed the starter bearings last June when I bought the bike but, of course, I'll check everything again when I pull the engine.


Regards,

Scott

[3Phase]

Watch this -- hold my beer!

I got a starter clutch and transmission from Andreas Weiss (thanks, Andreas!) and I'm about to resume pulling the engine and splitting the cases. I started to do it a few days ago and the first thing I did was break off an EasyOut in one of those dumb break-away timing plate anchor bolts under the left engine cover. I bought a grinder bit to remove it but it's been one thing after another.

Every time I pick up a tool or even look toward the garage... I can't get back into it. I just put the cover back on and I've been riding the bike with the broken EasyOut stuck in the bolt; hoping it'll fall out on its own, I guess, but it's time to dig back in and get it done. Naturally, the good camera batteries died and the mobile phone is taking green, blurry, pictures.

So far, the 2nd gear wheel hub has been machined down ~0.040" to work with two washers (thanks, YahMan!) so the dogs/slots have better engagement and the hub won't ride against the snap-ring. I'm hoping that all I'll need is a new timing chain and the two crankshaft end seals but I'm holding off until I see if the lower end has gone pear shaped.

Regards,

Scott

[trbig]

The only special tools you'll really need besides the obvious, will be that Torx T-30 bit for those 6 screws under the shifter cover and a good set of split ring pliars. You'll need a GOOD T-30 bit. The cheap ones will have a bit of rounded nose to them with the bottom center of the bit sticking out slightly further than the fins. A good one will take them out.. a cheap one will strip them out. You can take a cheap one and touch it up with the grinder so that the bottom and the torx fins start in the same spot. You just want a squared up one.

Don't forget the tri-bond or Yamabond, and read the warnings in the manual about getting that stuff too close to the crank bearings. Just follow the line of the two case halves and remove whatever it's splitting.

Tod

[3Phase]

Gacked

Yes, it's a technical term.

After one thing after another I finally got the case split and took a look inside. The #1 and #4 rod journals have some small divots on them so the crankshaft was gacked on something when the engine was assembled. Those bearing shells are scored and wiped but the rest of the rod and main bearings and journals all look pretty good for the mileage.

These are the #4 journal and bearing shells. You can see the little divots in the journal, the demolished #4 bearing shells and one of the good #3 shells





Right now, I can't figure out how to get the crankshaft the rest of the way out of the upper case half. It starts to lift out, then stops like it's hooked on something so I'm off to re-read the 'fine' manual and do some searching here on Channel 11.



Regards,

Scott

[3Phase]

The only special tools you'll really need besides the obvious, will be that Torx T-30 bit

Thanks for this little warning, Tod. The only Torx bits I had on-hand were #40 through #60. I bought a set of small Torx bits from #30 down to ... I forget, but they're really small!

While pulling the engine, the only 'gotcha' that got me was forgetting to remove the rear brakelight switch spring. It's okay but it scared the heck out of me when it went, "sproing!" and the engine shifted.


Regards,

Scott

[3Phase]

Bearing shell colors

Does anyone know which number should be used for the connecting rod bearing shells? Yes, I have read the discussion about the extremely minute differences in millimeters between the bearing shells. Apparently, the shells are all designed for the production assembly line with Standard crankshafts and not for re-ground, undersize crankshafts.

All four rods are marked "3G5" going left to right, rod big-end to rod cap.
All of the bearing shell colors are baked but still visible.

Bearings shell insert numbers/colors are determined by subtracting the number written on the connecting rod from the number stamped into the left end of the crankshaft.

Bearing numbers, colors and thickness (from our UK friends' research?):

1 Blue		1.5mm +0.006mm/+0.002mm
2 Black		1.5mm +0.002mm/-0.002mm
3 Brown		1.5mm -0.002mm/-0.006mm
4 Green		1.5mm -0.006mm/-0.010mm
5 Yellow		1.5mm -0.010mm/-0.014mm

According to the manual the first number should be used but, empirically, it would appear that the last number is used.

By The Book:
Rod number	:	1	2	3	4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod marks	: 	3G5	3G5	3G5	3G5
Crank marks	:	2	1	2	1
Shell number	:	1	2	1	2
Shell color	:	Blue	Black	Blue	Black

The shells I actually have in the engine appear to have used the "5":

Actual Bearings Found:
Rod number	:	1	 2	3	 4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod marks	: 	3G5	3G5	3G5	3G5
Crank marks	:	2	1	2	1
Shell number	:	3	4	3	4
Shell color	:	Brown	Green	Brown	Green

#1 connecting rod with Brown bearing shell instead of Blue


#2 connecting rod with Green bearing shell instead of Black


Okay, I'm off to measure the crankshaft, cases, pistons, rings, cylinders, cams and cam bearings.

The crankshaft bearings are all the correct color according to the manual but this should keep me out of trouble for a couple of hours, then I can start looking for parts.




Regards,

Scott

[DiverRay]

Scott,
I would get some plastigauge and measure EVERYTHING with it. You can guess, and then see how close the crank and rods really are. Just have them grind the crank as little as possible. undersize bearings are HARD to find.
We DO have a shop in San Jose who can "make" bearings. You may have one down in the LA area as well. I think if they had a "good" bearing to start with, they could "add" some babbit material too the shell, and produce an undersize. I just don't know what it may cost!

[3Phase]

Scott,
I would get some plastigauge and measure EVERYTHING with it.

Oh, you know it, Ray! I've been busy researching bearings and a lot of other parts and the news isn't good: there are no O.E.M. oversize bearings for undersize crankshafts. After I figure out what parts I'll actually need I'll be talking to Andreas (NO! I did NOT saw anything in half!) and scrounging fleaBay.

I'm going down now to remove the valves from the head, then check the cams and cam journals. It looks like the number three and four aluminum journals in the head for the exhaust camshaft are worn way out of tolerance.

Number three and four exhaust valves took some honkin' shims to decrease the clearance when I checked and adjusted the valves last summer, now I know why. It could be the result of extended idling on the sidestand or not ever adjusting the valves and beating the cam/journal to death. I'll know more later!


Regards,

Scott

[GARTHXS]

pm'd you

check your messages

[DiverRay]

there are no O.E.M. oversize bearings for undersize crankshafts. After I figure out what parts I'll actually need I'll be talking to Andreas (NO! I did NOT saw anything in half!) and scrounging fleaBay.

I mentioned about the bearing company because I think they CAN build a bearing for an undersized crank! All they really need is the specs for the crank, and one of the "good" STOCK bearings.

[3Phase]

I mentioned about the bearing company because I think they CAN build a bearing for an undersized crank! All they really need is the specs for the crank, and one of the "good" STOCK bearings.

I'll check it out, Ray, but I'm kind of leary of re-coating used bearing shells.

Right now it looks like I'll be able to save this engine. Yay!

Except for the two bad rod bearings the crankshaft, heads, valves, cams, pistons, rods, rings, cylinders and every other [...] thing I measured today are all within factory spec. Some of them are really close to the service limits but with some elbow grease, a couple of new rod bearings and a master gasket kit I should be stylin'! There's still a lot of cleaning and hand-fitting work left to do but I feel better than I did when I started out this morning.


Regards,

Scott

[DiverRay]

I'll check it out, Ray, but I'm kind of leary of re-coating used bearing shells.

Scott, I was thinking about taking a NEW bearing down to them! I would NOT try to use an OLD bearing!!
Glad to hear it will be running again! Now remember, you only have about two more months before the next West Coast get together!!

[3Phase]

I'll be caning the Camry for a while, not the bike

Scott, I was thinking about taking a NEW bearing down to them! I would NOT try to use an OLD bearing!!

Okay, that makes a lot more sense!

Do you or anyone else happen to recall the name of a company that rebuilds bearings? I got sidetracked for half a day reading PDFs and watching Flash videos over at the Mahle Clevite web site but I haven't found anything else searching the 'net.

Glad to hear it will be running again! Now remember, you only have about two more months before the next West Coast get together!!

Well, it looks like I'm going to need the months. I bought a new toy and took some more accurate measurements of the rod journals while I was trying to get rid of the dings.

It's a no go. The dings and scratches are at TDC on the #1 and #4 connecting rod journals and they run deep. The amount of material I'd have to remove to get rid of the scratches and restore the polish would make a flat spot at TDC and the bearings would be destroyed almost instantaneously when the engine was started.

The crankshaft has to be professionally ground and polished or I'll have to find a used crankshaft. I have time.

I'm waiting on the top-end gasket kit 3H5-W0001-90-00, a rod bearing kit 1J7-W0016 and a metric box load of o-rings, clips and assorted doo-hickeys to put everything back together. Some new rings would be nice, too, but they're over $50 per piston.

Unless I get really lucky I'm going to need a main bearing kit, 2H7-W0015-00-00.

#1 connecting rod journal


#4 connecting rod journal


Here is a shot of the Plastigauge used to check the camshaft oil clearance. There were thin 'sheets' of aluminum extruded out from the #4 and #5 exhaust cam bearing caps that look like ultra-thin aluminum foil. They broke off when I removed the cams but there is still a small bit of aluminum extending out from the #4 cap. That is why I thought the cam bearings were worn out. They're useable but they're at service limit.


Finally, here's my latest $20 toy from Harbor Freight.
It displays metric, inches and fractional inches.



Regards,

Scott

[XSPastor]

Used Crankshafts

There are lots of used cranks on ebay. Just search XS1100 Crankshaft.