I too am doing the 2nd gear fix

[CatatonicBug]

I am finally almost happy with the way the engine runs (still have a blockage in the idle circuit that I'll take care of this weekend too), so I now plan to take advantage of the warmer weather in my carport tomorrow and tear into the tranny. Second gear has started to slip, and third gear slips so much it's totally unusable (have to skip it and go straight to 4th). Reading through and printing all the pictures and diagrams that you guys have so meticulously put together, has given me a rush of confidence.
The last transmission I worked on was a '68 VW bug with a synchro issue, more than 15 years ago. I plan to go out in the morning and get the necessary grinding bits, and use my straight die grinder instead of a dremel. My main question is, other than new oil and the grinding bits, is there anything else I should buy while I am out to complete the task? Do I need to locate a new gasket for the oil pan, or should I be able to just put it back together? Any other related clips or nuts or anything that I should get? Oh, and how many grinding bits should I get? I'll probably be doing the fix on at least 2nd and 3rd gear. None of the others seem to have any problems.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bug,

I referenced Ken Talbot's pages and with your DIE GRINDER you should look at his pages, he lists special diamond burrs and such for the die grinder that will make quick work vs. the dremmels stone ones. We posted about the dremmel because not everyone has or can afford a die grinder and compressor and such.

You can MAKE your own gaskets with sheet material from auto store, I described about that in another tip, the extra steel clutch plate.

Since you have to remove the clutch assembly to work on the gears, it's a good time to check the specs on the frictions and steels, and it's a cheap fix to replace the clutch springs, and the proper sized large socket that's needed for the main clutch nut! Also an inchpound as well as regular ft/lb torque wrench is needed for the low range clutch star plate bolts.

Even though you only have 2nd and 3rd gear issues, it's best to go ahead and condition the 1st/4th set as well, it's just a matter of time.

IF you have stock pipes, you will probably need to remove them, so a new set of exhaust gaskets would be advisable. Sorry that point wasn't in the tip, but I had only worked on bikes with aftermarket pipes, and it had been so long since I had OEM pipes on mine I didn't realize that they interfered with access to the tranny pan!

Also the shift lever return spring is another item that could be added for the while you're in there stuff! Don't forget to clean the inside of the oil level window.

T.C.

[CatatonicBug]

TC,

You mention Ken Talbot's pages... Where might one find those? I did a search on this site for diamond burrs, but nothing came up, and the link on Ken's profile to another site didn't work. Can you point me in the right direction?

I already have the necessary torque wrenches, and I may actually have some gasket material in my shop. I'll hafta check though. I do have the MNS stock pipes, so how mandatory is removal of the headers? Might I be able to get away with not removing them?

I had already planned on doing the 1st/4th set, since I'll be in there anyway, and the fact that everyone else seems to have problems with 1st gear too.

[Ivan]

the gaskets come in a tube. Mine said "Ultra Silver".

Scoff if you will, but properly done silicone gaskets will hold up better than paper. Probably the only gasket I wouldn't use silicone on would be the head gasket and anything contacting gasoline.

Silicone is way easier than cutting new gaskets from gasket paper, and cheaper than buying gaskets, since one tube will make several gaskets.

Since you're using a dotco (die grinder) you have the 1/4 inch shaft, and for some reason there are several great stones for these that are cheaper than dremel stuff. IIRC there was a set of several different stones at Wal-Mart that had a reverse taper stone it in. Cost about $6. Parts stores should have something as well. Get a fine grit, I used the coarse stuff on the dremel and it went really quickly, so the fine grit may be better.

Oh yeah, dont forget to read my post on how not to fix second gear. Some great tips in there. Ok, not really, but worth the read.

[TopCatGr58]

Okay, it's not Ken's pages, but has the info about the diamond burrs!

http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...strations.html

I'll keep looking! T.C.

[XSPastor]

Odds and ends...

I highly recommend changing the shift pedal return spring. You'll also need some lock-tite blue for the counter shaft bearing cap torx screws. Don't forget to check the shift drum alignment before you button it all up. Clutch cover, oil pan(strainer cover in Yamaha-speak) and the trans side cover will all need gaskets. Some people remove the oil pump to make the counter shaft easier to pull; there is an o-ring there that you should probably replace as long as you have the pump off. If it leaks at that O-ring, you won't know it but your oil pressure will be lower and that can't be a good thing. It's a 21mm socket for the clutch and the rear wheel as I recall... You can usually use the clutch lock washer again but if it's been off a few times, you may want to have another one on hand in case the other one breaks when you bend it.

[bikerphil]

It's a 21mm socket for the clutch

Pretty sure it's 27mm. I use a 1 1/16" socket which I happen to have that fits perfect.

[motoman]

gear fix

Ironicley, you may have seeps or mild leaks making gaskets. All the screws out of covers and pan, lightly tap these cover to pop them loose and re-use existing gaskets, even if part of gasket breaks and stays with covers. Thin film of High-Temp Grey silicone(permatex brand) on surfaces will resolve and seeps or even so much as a oil film around mated surfaces. At one point a couple yrs. ago with mine not staying in second and shift pawl pin coming out, removing shift cover so many times finially trashed gasket and use high temp grey and never had any leak problems. Also check and make sure circlip is still in place on shift pawl shaft on the clutch side. If not you will know it as it will be laying in pan. Kicking in and out of gear will alot of times cause the shift fork shaft to knock the circlip off. This happens moe times than not. So study diagrams and pics well before re-assembly. The removal of everything isn't hard......just a bit time consuming thing that cuts into fun riding time. If bike still has center stand, upright and on the center stand IS the best way to do the gear fix. Others have done it with bike or motor in other positions, but trust me, gravity IS your friend doing this repair, specially insalling shaft/gear assembly and forks! My Venturer now has no gaskets on any of the three covers, even tho I have saved back new gaskets. Been a couple years now and no even so much as a seep. Just my advice and opinion that may save problems later. Also, Ivan is dead-on using proper silicone. Prep and clean of any sovent/oil on surfaces is key. Can of spray Brake-Kleen does wonders for prep.

[DGXSER]

hmmmm.....Am I missing something here? I thought this fix, tok care of second and fifth, and first and fourth, never knew it addressed third?

[bikerphil]

hmmmm.....Am I missing something here? I thought this fix, tok care of second and fifth, and first and fourth, never knew it addressed third?

4th gear has dogs on both sides of it. One side mates with 1st gear. The other side mates with the slots for 3rd gear.

[XSPastor]

I stand corrected!

Pretty sure it's 27mm. I use a 1 1/16" socket which I happen to have that fits perfect.

You're absolutely right, Phil! 27mm is the correct size. Oops!

[CatatonicBug]

Well, the die grinder definitely makes much shorter work of this. I tried the Dremel idea first, with the Tungsten Carbide bit, and that worked ok for the 2nd gear section, which was only slightly worn. Took a good 3-5 minutes per dog/slot to grind, but made a nice smooth finish. 3rd gear was a mess though! As Phil mentioned, the dogs on the opposite side from the 1st gear ones were absolutely rounded over (a good 2-3mm deep). The dremel was just taking way too long. Got out the die grinder and a 1/4" shank straight-edged grinding stone, and it tore through it like I was frosting a cake! Used the Dremel to finish off the edges and corners, and made sure to mate it up with its corresponding slots a few times to check for even griding.

Still in the process of putting it back together, as I was out in the carport till 3am last night when I got the oil pump put back on. Man, those shift forks are a pain! It's really kinda fun to see where the PO has been in here before. The case has definitely been split, as the blue silicone is gobbed all along the seam, and the lock washer on the clutch basket had signs of being un-bent once before. Can't tell what was repaired in there, but something was done at some point.

I did find the circlip from the oil pump idle gear in the oil pan, along with the missing 5th gear shift pin and the tab that broke off that once held it in. Lots of other metal shavings in there too, but nothing else was large enough to be recognizable. It's going well so far, and thanks everyone for all the tips. They really help to know what to look out for.

[CatatonicBug]

Small problem

Well, I got all the cover put back on, added oil, and went to crank it just to get oil into everything, and grabbed the clutch lever, and NOTHING!!! I adjusted the cable back to where it had been before (counted the revolutions at the lever adjusting screw), but there is no tension except for the little spring at the end of the cable! What did I do wrong? Do I need to take the side cover off again and re-seat the clutch? I installed everything to the proper torque specs, and gradually tightened the clutch spring screws to make sure they were all even. Any ideas??

[DiverRay]

Follow the adjusting method in the "how to" section. You need to start at the clutch cover, and adjust the screw in all the way. It should just feel seated, then back off 1/4 TURN ONLY!. You THEN adjust the cable for the proper slack.

[CatatonicBug]

Follow the adjusting method in the "how to" section. You need to start at the clutch cover, and adjust the screw in all the way. It should just feel seated, then back off 1/4 TURN ONLY!. You THEN adjust the cable for the proper slack.

Would that need to be done even if I didn't mess with that screw at all? I only gave it slack at the grip, then undid the cable from the clutch cover arm. That was the only thing done to the clutch cover itself. Would the fact that I took the clutch basket out and put it back in require additional adjusting?