digging into the tranny

[trbig]

None of these transmissions will shift from 1st-5th without some movement of the back tire. It sounds to me like you just need to button it up and break everything in. Everything is rough ground right now.. it will smooth up in time.

A word to the wise though.. don't force the shifter too hard. Those shift forks aren't very tough.. just cast aluminum.

Tod

[adam79]

just curious, do they make tougher fork now? And if a fork does end up being/getting bent, is there specific specs to try and bend it back to or should I just consider it toast?

[adam79]

If I remove the the internal kick start mechanism, do I have to seal the hole it make in the case?

[XSPastor]

You definitley have to seal the hole! That would spew oil if it were left open. I think you can still buy the rubber plug or just get one from a donor cover. On the other side, I would replace the shift pedal return spring while I was in there. Those springs get tired after 30 years. I can't believe how much better mine shifted when I replaced that spring.

[trbig]

do I have to seal the hole it make in the case?

No.. just that hole in your clutch cover.

I can't answer the shift fork question.. but I haven't heard of a source for them. Main thing is just not to try to use your shifter to hold it in gear if it's popping out... but with this gear fix you did, you won't have to wrry about that any more.

Tod

P.S. Just to clarify after Tim's reply... The hole in the CASE is left open. The hole in the clutch cover... yes, of course it needs to be plugged.

[XSPastor]

You're absolutely right.

No.. just that hole in your clutch cover.

I can't answer the shift fork question.. but I haven't heard of a source for them. Main thing is just not to try to use your shifter to hold it in gear if it's popping out... but with this gear fix you did, you won't have to wrry about that any more.

Tod

P.S. Just to clarify after Tim's reply... The hole in the CASE is left open. The hole in the clutch cover... yes, of course it needs to be plugged.

Thanks for the clarification!

[adam79]

I know. I was just going to leave the external kick start mechanism in the cover, and I was asking about the case. But I am definitely interested now in buying a new spring. Thanks for the tip xspastor. Now, to continue, I need to pull my clutch apart and check the friction plates/make adjustments, so Im sure Ill be speaking to you guys soon, and thanks for the guidance thus far.

[DGXSER]

Interestingly

I was speaking to a local bike speed shop owner. He was interested in this same technique to try it on I think he said an R6?? Said the owner had him do some work then stated the gears won't shift at all now. He wants to try pulling them through the pan instead of pulling the engine.

He also said that he has the same thing done to Suzuki and Kawasaki bikes routinely. He sends the gears out to "Fast Glass" I think was the name in NY. Said he runs them like that in a drag bike and never had a problem since the work was done.

I know that I have to shift like I mean it or sometimes I will miss a shift. The old CB750 customs I rode you could almost think of the shift and it would happen. With these you seem to have to tell it FIRMLY what to do.

But then, my bike seems to be like a wild horse, it is fighting me on everything until we get better aquainted (I hope).

[XSPastor]

Toast!

just curious, do they make tougher fork now? And if a fork does end up being/getting bent, is there specific specs to try and bend it back to or should I just consider it toast?

If it's truly bent, it could be bent back but it has been weakened and I wouldn't do it for a long term fix. You should be able to find a transmission on ebay for 50 bucks or so or maybe you'll get lucky and find just the forks. 57 bucks for a new #1 shift fork here.

[trbig]

Your best bet on the clutch is to throw an extra steel plate in there and buy some new springs for the clutch. @ $16 for the springs last I checked.

Tod

[adam79]

an extra steel plate? Would that be the number 7 in this picture?

[trbig]

Yup, that's the one. You just throw it in there in the middle. Doesn't make sense to me. Those clutches work by having a friction disc against a steel plate... but that puts a steel plate against a steel plate. Seems like it would slip... but it doesn't. Lots of people on here have done it. If you don't want to, just new springs would help. The extra disc is just insurance.

Tod

[adam79]

what about a new set of friction plates? Or just replacing the worn ones? Even if they are all replaced, would you still add an extra plate?

[Ivan]

I did the fix too and it was darn near impossible to get the tranny to shift by hand. I too thought there was a problem. However, If you read my post on "How not to fix second gear" you will understand why I thought maybe it was only a distorted memory from the night before.

All that is to say, when it hit the road, every thing shifted smooth as glass....well ok. As smooth as an XS can shift. Someone on the forum refers tot eh transmission being from a Russian tractor. I find it to be ironically funny.

As far as the friction plates, most people have found them to be in spec, from what i have read and heard. Mine were in spec too. I did the extra steel mod as well, but finally ended up making some shims for the springs, which worked better for me and it was easy seeing how I am a machinist and all.

As far as your need for an extra steel, I have those for the asking, and I can russel up a side cover with a plug in it if you want to rid your self of the kickstart. If you find you are desperate for a shift fork, I can try to tear in to one of my spare engines and retrieve one for you. The amount of work involved in that and the lack of garage space might demand some form of compensation, maybe a firm handshake if we ever meet. I would ask that you donate to shipping, if you decide you want a few parts.

[prometheus578]

The extra steel plate "syndrome" was started years ago, I believe, by someone who wanted to "tighten up his clutch pack" to compensate for him being too cheap to just order a new set of springs. An extra steel plate just makes your worn out springs press the plates together a little harder. (For a while)
Measure the thickness of the friction plates and replace if needed.
Lay the steel plates one by one on a plane of glass... and by sliding a feeler guage between the plate and the glass, check for warpage.

After thirty years of being compressed... might be a good time to replace those clutch springs.

Friction plates must be oiled.
When replacing the friction plates... soak them in a pan of motor oil for a few hours (over night is nice) so that they can absorb some of the oil into the friction material. If not done... the plates will not grab, but spin against each other and the friction plates will glaze over... losing their friction making capability.

(Oh, and no offense meant toward those with extra plates...)