digging into the tranny

[trbig]

No, you don't remove that screw in the first pic TC is pointing at. That goes to your drive gears that your tranny gears mesh with. Those gears don't get messed with in this mod. you'll need to remove the small gear that is closest to the clutch shaft. That needs to come off to remove the shift forks. Make sure you keep the forks in order and arranged right. That gear meshes with the oil pump gear (Top left in your pic) that will come out when you take out the oil pump.

The other gear in your pic on the top right is for your kick starter. TC's didn't have a kickstarter on his motor so there's just a plate there on his. Someone else will have to chime in here to say if the guts for the kickstarter on the other side of the case get in the way for this mod.


Tod

[DGXSER]

Adam,

The bolt right next to your clutch shaft is the counter shaft retaining bolt. Looks like that is the step you are on. You do need to remove it.

As to the gears, the small gear right next to it that is driven by the clutch is the shift fork shaft, it does not tuenthe shift shaft fork but rides on the shaft. It will eventually come out if your pulling all of the gears when you pull the shift fork shaft. The gear it drives is the oil pump, it comes off with the oil pump if you remove it. The other gear you have that is not in TC's photo looks like it may be part of your kickstarter assembly? They did away with it in 80 so I dont have one, not sure how it plays into the project.

Here is my bike at the same step although mine was on the centerstand so invert to match yours.



No kickstart gear though.

[adam79]

Ok, thanks. Now, unless I've completely overlooked something, it looks like I'll have to remove my exhaust to get the pan off. There is just no room to get to some of the bolts. When I put the exhaust back on, do I need threadlock (I have blue) and new gaskets? Is it easy to bust the bolts when removing?



BTW, I found my exhaust leak. The PO must have hit a speed bump. I dont know if I should screw with that clamp or not. Does it require welding?

[DGXSER]

Yep, the exhaust has to go, at least it did on mine. This is where I started to get freaked about bustin something, worked on to many old auto engines. The exhaust nuts on mine came off easier than about anything else. I did not use any thread lock on them and they had none on them. Of course the two on no 4 were loose when I took them off. I would again suggest soaking everything well with blaster before you start though. Again my bike lived in doors most if not all of its life, so things are not as corroded as on some that were not as fortunate. Finesse over force will always work out better, (experience talking here, the wrong kind of experiences). Check the torque required to tighten them and use that as a gage of how much force it should take to remove them. If you feel like your putting way more on them, IMHO I'd repeat the blaster and let em soak a bit longer.

As to putting them back on, I did need new gaskets. Others that know a butload more than me suggest you do not always have to, but mine leaked when I reused them. I got them at a local cycle shop for $3 a piece, they had plenty in stock. When you put the exhaust system back on, make sure to leave everything loose until you get every bolt and or nut started, you need the room to move things about to get it all back together. That includes both sides loose until you get the cross pipe back together.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Adam,

Apologies for the Exhaust faux paux! Both mine, and recently BNE/MadMaxim's machine had aftermarket pipes, and they were not in the way of the tranny pan. It's been 8+yrs since I did mine, and several other folks have done theirs, and they didn't report about needing to remove the pipes on stock machines, so that's why I didn't say anything about possibly needing to remove the pipes to access the tranny pan!

The other questions have been answered regarding the oil pump gears, the shift shaft fork/gear assembly, as well as the bolt I was pointing to which is the countershaft securing bolt. Again, others with kickstarters have done this procedure and have not mentioned needing to remove those parts to access/remove the countershaft gears!

The exhaust gaskets are CRUSH style, and so it's best to get new ones otherwise you risk exhaust leaks, popping exhaust, lean condition and even damage to the engine. PB Blaster is quite good for loosening the rust and such on the exhaust stud nuts. Spray it on/in them, them tap them lightly with a hammer to help vibrate the parts to get the Blaster to penetrate in between the parts, spray again, let sit a while, etc. You don't use thread lock on the exhaust nuts, only on the studs IF they loosen instead of the nuts, to secure them back into the head!

I'll be making some edits to the tech tip!
T.C.

[adam79]

i dont have the right pair of pliers to get these c rings off of the shift fork shaft. im using two flat head screwdrivers, but it is digging into the metal of the case. does anyone have a tip on how to get them off easier? what a pain

[andreashweiss]

There is a special set of tools to take off those clips. Go to a auto parts store and buy the better quality of what they have. cheap tools suck. Save yourself the grief and buy the right tool for the job. Make sure to buy both kinds for removing clips. You will need both kinds when working on the trans. Some clips need to be spread,some need to be compressed. thanx andreas

[DGXSER]

I have spent many a day fighting C clips with screwdrivers, finally ponied up for a pair of C-clip pliers. Best money I ever spent. Get them at wally world, or autozone, alot of places. Mine will interchange to compress or spread.

[adam79]

1 hour just to get 4 clips off. I'll buy the pliers. thanks-Adam

[adam79]

well, igot all 4 clips off, and im pulling from the clutch side, but the shift fork shaft isnt coming out. am i missing something or do i just need to use a lot of force?

[DGXSER]

Adam,
Mine pulled out VERY easily. The only thing on that shaft is the shift forks. You did pull the C-clip on the shaft after you remove the shift pawl right? A total of two on the shifter side of the shift fork shaft, one holds the pawl on and one behind it against the tranny case. Try tapping your shift forks with your fingers to see of they have any movement maybe, to see if somehow they are bound up on the shaft? Is one of your shift forks bent? I have read here on CH11 of PO's that basically stood on the shifter or pulled on it to hold the tranny in gear when the shifting problems occurred and bent their shift forks. That might put a bind on the shaft.

Here is what mine looked like.



At most if yours is refusing to budge, I might take a piece of wood and a hammer and tap on the shifter side of the shaft LIGHTLY. HTH

Oh, and when you go to pull the bearing cover off if you have not yet, do not use the ears as a pry point like a PO had on mine, they will snap off.

[trbig]

Yeah, if you could post a pic of the shifter side of things it might help. I don't know why you couldn't pull that shift fork shaft out the clutch side, but I've always done it from the other?? I like to take lots of pics along the way anyway in case I forget how something looked when trying to get it back together.

Tod

[adam79]

The shaft was caught on the groove for the C clip. I jiggled and worked it out though. But, I could not get the counter shaft out, because it would still hit the shift forks even though I had them resting agains the drum, like in the walkthrough. I had to twist them sideways and let them fall quite a ways down into the engine. Did anyone else have to do that? I hope it's not to much of a pain to get the shaft back in.

[bikerphil]

I hope it's not to much of a pain to get the shaft back in.

Putting the countershaft and the shift forks back in is the fun part! Make sure the transmission is in 4th gear shifting position. Just have patience my friend.

[DGXSER]

I did mine on the ground/centerstand. I pulled the shift forks out as I removed the shift fork shaft. I have read that you may want to be careful they do not fall TOO far into the engine case. May be tough to get back out??

When you get to putting them back in, the fun REALLY starts. Out was a piece of cake by comparison. See this thread;

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20461&page=1

Allow me to pay homage to Phil for his support and help as I went through mine. Once I go the countershaft back in, all went relatively smoothly for me. The shift fork shaft was not bad at all.

For now, if you have the countershaft out, just take a few deep breaths, a few more, drink a beer or two, and relax. Then maybe tomorrow start working the gears. Take your time on dremeling the gears. You can always take more off later, you can not put it back on. Like the old carpenter joke "Cut it off twice and its still to short!"