starter free wheels

[tarzan]

I know I saw a thread a little while back about this but cant seem to find it now.
Anyway I was out in the garage today working on the neighbors snowblower.Its about 10 degrees here with about 3 feet of snow.
I walked past the XS and decided I should start it because I haven't started in about two months and I dont have my battery tender hooked up to it. So I turn on the choke and hit the starter and it free wheels,starter didnt catch.Now, I noticed this about the last month of the riding season that it would sometimes do this.I hit it again and it caught but only long enough to get about one revolution out of it.So it is hit and miss now.After a bit of dickin with it I finally got it to start.Let me say however the XS isnt too keen on 10 degrees I guess.It ran on full choke for a few minutes and then a few more on half choke.I didnt run it long enough to thoroughly warm it up though because I had it at the man door with the exhaust pointing out but it was still puking some carbon monoxide in the garage.So it is starting better again now but I want to do something about the starter.
I did buy a new starter on ebay a few months ago ,so I have that part.
Heres my question - Do I need to pull a side cover and mess with any thing in there?
I have an old Virago that had a starter issue and I had to pull the left side cover ,and have an idler gear and the ring gear on the rotor ground to fix it ,as well as replace the starter.
Hoping the Xs starting system is better than a Virago.

[DGXSER]

Starter on the XS sounds like a bad solenoid. It should be under the right hand side cover.

As to the Virago, they are known for starter issues like the XS is known for second gear, only worse. They say you get about two years per starter on the Viragos, I thoink there is a washer fix for those similar to the second gear washer swap on the XS.

[petejw]

starter clutches

hi tarzan,
ull find that its the starter clutches slipping and the only way 2 repair it is 2 split the cases,
my 81 does it every winter, it can take anywhere up2 15min 4 the starter to catch, u can always clutch the bike 2 start it as well, the problem seems 2 go away as the weather warms up, ive also heard of ppl placing a heater at the front of the bike to get sum warmth into it.

[thewiz]

May also be ..

related to high oil viscosity due to lower ambient temps.

[Ken Talbot]

related to high oil viscosity due to lower ambient temps.

Yup, this happens to Tsunami early or late in the riding season too, when temperatures are low. Once it catches it is okay, and when the weather warms up, the problem also goes away.

[bikerphil]

viscosity

I used to run straight 70W motor oil in my old 79F engine due to worn main bearings. The starter clutch would slip if it got below 50 degrees. These starter clutches don't like cold thick oil.

[Brent]

EZ fix for starter clutch

Mine was freewheeling almost half of the time I hit the button.

A similar problem was fixed on an old gold wing by replacing the small coil springs in starter clutch. Cheap, but getting to it - INVOLVED.

EZ fix is to add some marvel mystery oil to engine oil in crank case. This cleans out sticky oil gunk from the starter clutch & frees up starter clutch rollers (in goldwing). I got this tip from gold wing guys. It worked for me on my XS, so I do not know about accessing starter clutch in XS11.

No problems reported with clutch from this. I did not exceed the amount indicated on the mystery oil bottle and added it about 500 miles before oil change. I still use a little from time to time.

Good luck wrenching,
Brent in GA

[prometheus578]

"What do I gotta do.. draw you a picture?"

(Only 'cause it's Christmas. Don't think you're gonna get treats like this all the time.)

Anyway.. time for another of my beautifully rendered, artistically styled, graphic training aids.
I present, "The Starter Clutch"



MOTOR RUNNING

I can't remember which type we have. Some have spring loaded rollers, some have, like depicted here, many dog-bone shaped pivotting gizmos. Doesn't matter, the concept is the same.

As depicted above, the motor is running. The crankshaft is spinning merrily, and the starter clutch is not engaged.


Now then, let's hit the starter button, shall we?
Starter starts to turn and, as it's gear is always engaged with the teeth of the starter clutch, the start clutch starts to spin.


STARTING: CLUTCH ENGAGED

As the starter clutch turns, those dog-bone shaped things pivot outward. The tips are actually rounded, not square as shown here. (I can't draw rounded things too well) They bite into the crankshaft and, due to friction, the crankshaft turns and the bike starts. Once the crank is spinning faster than the starter clutch, the little dog-bone thingies retract to their starting position.

Why do we need to understand this?
Due to cold temps, the oil thickens. Several things can happen.(or not happen, like starting)
If the oil is too thick, too viscous, those little dog-bone thingies will not freely swing out and engage the crankshaft. This is why you hear the starter spinning, but the engine doesn't turn.
Also... a thick layer of oil can coat the crankshaft and the boney things can't properly penetrate that to "friction engage" the crankshaft.

Now then.. a word about synthetic oils. Slippery stuff, yes?
Yes... sometimes slippery enough that the dog-bones can't get their friction grip on the crankshaft.
This, and "Slipping Clutch Syndrome", is why synthetic oils aren't recommended for our machines.

[tarzan]

Thanks for the replies.I think I understand the XS starter clutch.At least Yamaha made it better than a Virago starter clutch.Not too much better though.
Earlier in the year I did run castrol synthetic for about 2500 miles ,but I changed it back to regular 20/50 about 1000 miles before I put it up.It might just be the cold weather and thick oil and I suppose it could still have some residuals from the synthetic.The bike only has a little over 4000 original miles on it now,so it shouldn't really have a problem yet.
After all it is the "best motorcycle ever built"(reference from Bob Jones,I'm reading his book.)
I wonder if I move to Phoenix my starter would be happy again?

[prometheus578]

I wonder if I move to Phoenix would my starter be happy again?

I don't know about your starter... but your neighbors would be overjoyed!

[oseaghdha]

Dang it

I thought there were some Free Wheels somewhere.

I don't need any wheels, but free is almost as good as bacon.

[boyat68]

A sixty watt shop light(with the reflector) positioned on the bottom of the bike for about an hour will sufficiently warm the oil to allow for starting. Folks that live north of the Mason Dixon line might investigate oil heater sticks. In the late fifties they were necessary for starting autos in the UP Michigan winter.

[tarzan]

Prom- the nighbors love me,I snowblow their walks.And my 11 has the stock exhaust so its bearable.
Has anyone tried running 10/40 in the winter in an XS?Is it just too thin?
Yea oseaghdha- those free wheels are in the free money forum here some where.Just do a search.

[skids]

I usually run 10W40...winter or summer. I never run 10w50 through winter because the starter clutch has too difficult a time.

Prom- the nighbors love me,I snowblow their walks.And my 11 has the stock exhaust so its bearable.
Has anyone tried running 10/40 in the winter in an XS?Is it just too thin?
Yea oseaghdha- those free wheels are in the free money forum here some where.Just do a search.

[fredintoon]

My fix?
Cold Cranking Amps. A fully charged car battery's worth of them.