Spark Plug poll

[ViperRon]

Champion plugs

This may not be an issue anymore but back in the 80's I got into a battle between Champion Sparkplug company and the Navy Exchange. At that time you could get auto parts at a discount price from the navy exchange auto parts store and as there was little money that's where I got plugs. Brand new plugs put in the car standard copper core and the car ran one day then started missing. Checking I had a missfire on 5 of the 6 new plugs so I took them back for an exchange but all they had was champion at that exchange. They give me a set of 6 new ones and everything was fine for about a week then it failed again. An argument persued between me and the echange and then Champion which had a major contract with the Navy. In the end the Officer over the contract canceled the contract with Champion because in the copper core plugs Champion was found to be installing shortend copper rods into all their discount copper plugs to save money. After normal driving and opperation the copper core that was only held in place by the ceramic would loosen grip and the core would slide leaving a large gap inside the plug. With this happening a normal 35K coil would not produce a good consistant spark in fact on a tester it took 80K or better. Resister and any other specialized plugs were unaffected because they were metal to metal bonded. For this reason I avoid Champion.

[ViperRon]

Not Champion I beg of you

In the 80’s I got into a battle with the Navy exchange and Champion. Champion was the price leader at the time and had won them several contracts as primary supplier. I ended up having to buy Champion plugs that had quick and intermittent failure and was told by a goober mechanic I was wrong. It cost me quite a bit of money that I ended up getting back. Champion had started a cost reduction process because of the rise in the cost of copper. The design champion had was place a copper rod in the plug that touched the top and tip connector to transfer the spark. There was only a physical touch connection and metal was not bonded in any form. The problem was that the copper rods were shortened (cost reduction) leaving room for the copper to slide as it became loose. At first the rod remained stationary and would test good, and then as the copper was heated it expanded soon creating a loose fit in the body where the rod could slide back and forth. As this progressed there would be arcing inside the body of the plug. Some plugs I had the miss-fortune of getting would get so loose you could shake the plug and hear the rod slide back and forth in them. For the engine they were in, the plug would fire ok when the rod was centered, then it slides to one end or the other and solid misfire. You cut off the car, start looking for the problem and it cools off. Now maybe the rod has moved into place and it runs fine. I know all the mechanics can see what fun this can be because the problem can move from plug to plug today it’s this cylinder misfiring tomorrow its. This day it ran fine tomorrow it won’t start.
There are machines to test the spark in a plug and generally a 30K coil produces a good spark. Some of these plugs would fail after a few days at tested at 80K. With my ordeal I had several people help me but in the end but I got my money back and Champion was removed from the primary supplier list for the Navy exchange. I personally agree with Prometheus578 in calling Champion weasels as they make inferior products. When I help someone with an intermittent miss the first thing I do if they have Champion is throw the plugs in the trash.

[Rasputin]

I have not run a Champion plug in anything I owned since early 70's unless it came with them brand new and whenever they were replaced it was not with a Champion. I run NGK in almost everything I drive or ride. I have had luck with Bosch plugs on some things but not all. I used to like Autolite but they seem to have gone downhill a bit as well.
Putting a Champion in these bikes is like putting a butt plug in the exhaust (Yours or the bikes...same result). Once I have everything tuned to the best I think I can achieve with regular plugs, I switch to the Iridiums (NGK) and leave it alone. They work great and last a long time but are too pricey to do the tuning, plug chops, re-cleaning between color checks and all that. Once it all works right then they be the plug I choose every time. Oh yeah, you can remove the resistor in the plug caps as well as they are resistor plugs (all that is available in iridium) which helps make a healthier spark.

[dbbrian]

Went looking for non-resistor NGK and was told they don't make them anymore.

Wanted to get going so I put in the BP "R" 6ES and the bike runds fine.

Brian

[Bonz]

Never had a problem with the resistor type plugs.

[MPittma100]

Amazon

Went looking for non-resistor NGK and was told they don't make them anymore.

Wanted to get going so I put in the BP "R" 6ES and the bike runds fine.

Brian

Amazon has the BP 6ES.

[cajun31]

Well this was an interesting read. With the BP6ES plugs no longer available... what are you using now? With standard set ups ... original coils and plug caps can the resistors be removed form either the BPR6ES or the original plug caps?

[jetmechmarty]

Went looking for non-resistor NGK and was told they don't make them anymore.

Wanted to get going so I put in the BP "R" 6ES and the bike runds fine.

Brian

Confirmation here: https://www.ngk.com/ngk-7333-bp6es-nickel-spark-plug

[Bax]

Well this was an interesting read. With the BP6ES plugs no longer available... what are you using now? With standard set ups ... original coils and plug caps can the resistors be removed form either the BPR6ES or the original plug caps?

Just need the 5k ohm resistance between the coil and ground, if the resistance is included in the plug then it's not needed in the plug cap on the wire.

---Bax

[Bonz]

Myself and others posted on the old forum the BPR6EIX worked fine. Better (quicker) hot and cold starts. The wires were trimmed back so there was clean contact with the cap. Besides all my regular riding I have witnesses, lol... Lead a couple Colorado rallies on the bike, 3Phase borrowed the bike for another rally, etc.

In my understanding increasing resistance does not lower the "power" the spark plug sees, it increases or decreases the duration of the spark. If the plug gets 20,000 volts and no resistance it comes out basically instantly. The plugs are still going to get 20,000 volts to the plug with more resistance it's just spread over more time.

It's just a matter of whether that longer duration spark lowers the voltage too much over time based on the individual bike (how well it is tuned potentially) I guess.

With with my 80 SG, wasn't an issue. Ymmv.

[cajun31]

Just need the 5k ohm resistance between the coil and ground, if the resistance is included in the plug then it's not needed in the plug cap on the wire.

---Bax

understood... my question though is there a way to remove the resistor from the old style plug caps or the BPR6ES plugs?

[cajun31]

Myself and others posted on the old forum the BPR6EIX worked fine. Better (quicker) hot and cold starts. The wires were trimmed back so there was clean contact with the cap. Besides all my regular riding I have witnesses, lol... Lead a couple Colorado rallies on the bike, 3Phase borrowed the bike for another rally, etc.

In my understanding increasing resistance does not lower the "power" the spark plug sees, it increases or decreases the duration of the spark. If the plug gets 20,000 volts and no resistance it comes out basically instantly. The plugs are still going to get 20,000 volts to the plug with more resistance it's just spread over more time.

It's just a matter of whether that longer duration spark lowers the voltage too much over time based on the individual bike (how well it is tuned potentially) I guess.

With with my 80 SG, wasn't an issue. Ymmv.

Are you running aftermarket coils? The reason I ask is because In my research I read something about running too much resistance was not good for the old coils.

[Bax]

Resistor is built into each at the time of manufacture.

https://www.ngksparkplugs.co.za/prod...resistor-caps/

---Bax

[Bonz]

I ran stock coils, stock wires.

There are reputable people saying to the contrary however I did it not even knowing about the whole resistance thing and once I did I had no issues so I just left it.

[3Phase]

understood... my question though is there a way to remove the resistor from the old style plug caps or the BPR6ES plugs?

No, you can't remove the resistor from a resistor-type spark plug unless you cut it out of the ceramic insulator and ruin the spark plug.

Yes, some resistor-type spark plug caps can be modified to increase/decrease the resistance or completely remove the resistor but some can't be modified at all.

Your best bet for overall reliability is to use resistor-type spark plugs with non-resistor spark plug wires and caps or just crimp-ons so there are fewer parts to worry about and no screwing/unscrewing the caps to screw up the spark plug wires.