Am i screwed?

[oldyam80sg]

Today i went to replace the cam chain tension housing gasket.I lined up the "C"mark yesterday,loosened the nut and then the bolt, and then proceeded to remove the housing.Today i cleaned the surface where the black plug goes and put RTV to hold the plug in place.I put a new gasket on the housing and tightened the bolts.I went to start the bike and it ran for approx 2 minutes.Chain sounded a little bit noisy so i repeated the procedure according to the manual.Now the bike wont start and upon further examination realized the nut and thread portion where the nut goes is stripped.How would i know if i bent valves? Would this cause the bike not to start?The manual does not really get into the specific way to loosen the nut.How many turns are you supposed to go?The bolt and nut turned together until i put a wrench on the nut and then the bolt turned.So am i screwed?Where do i go from here?

[ClarkGriswald]

Did you loosen the adjustement locknut and then bolt and then remove the adjuster? At that point it would stick all the way out (tight) and possibly further if it the bolt was out far enough to let the plunger move past the flat where the bolt sets. Did ya take the adjuster apart while ya had it out?? You can see how far it can go max. I think if youd have taken it off without loosening the adjust screw first, you would have seen how far it was previously adjusted and how far you have left on it.. I found I could only retract mine to where the shaft was flush with the end of that hole so it didnt interfere with the seal/plug. not sure if this helps

[oldyam80sg]

I really don't follow what you are saying.I lined up the c mark first and loosened up the nut and then loosened the bolt maybe 2 or 3 threads.Then i took housing off.I looked at the rod in the housing and can see where the bolt hits it.But when i tightened the nut and then the housing the second time the nut would not tighten before it would slip.I took out the adjuster screw completely and looked at the screw.The upper portion of the thread where the nut obviously tightens is clearly stripped and so is the nut.

[oldyam80sg]

I just ordered a new screw and nut from bike bandit.Housing is not stripped screw bigger thread portion and nut are.

[ClarkGriswald]

oh well if the threads in your adjuster are ok then i would just buy a metric bolt that size and length and a new nut for it... but im not sure about what may have happened otherwise. Someone probly overtightened your locknut years ago or just all the times in its life. Hope everything else is alright.

Just a heads up, most local hardware stores have a selection of bolts in trays from whatever supplier they use. They usually darn near most of the metric screws/bolts ya need. Mabye not always the best ones ya can get but they get ya rollin instantly and you can always put in what you want later. (upgraded material whatever).

[oldyam80sg]

Yeah i follow that i could get a bolt at the store and a nut but would that be the same thing?Would this have caused the bike not to start?I know this sounds stupid but if the valves were bent would the bike start or just make a lot of noise?Is it possible i jumped a tooth on the sprocket?How much do i back the screw out the next time?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Old Yam,

Regrettably it does sound like the old stripped tensioner lock bolt allowing the tensioner plunger to slide in and out, NOT keeping the proper tension on the chain, allowing it to jump teeth, possibly bending valve(s), loss of compression=NO START?

Take the valve cover OFF. You can try to put an equivalent sized metric bolt in the tensioner to try to hold the plunger in place, so you can then rotate the engine by hand to the "T" mark, and look at your cams to see IF the dots on the cams lign up with the arrows/marks on the bearing caps?? IF so...then the chain hasn't jumped a tooth!

BUT, if the marks/dots don't lign up, then you've probably got some bent valves! You can look at the valves when the cam lobes are in the position where you could check the valve clearances, and if you see some that are VERY far away from the flat of the cam lobes, then those are the ones that are probably bent, not able to retract back into the head all the way to be close to the cam lobe!
T.C.

[ClarkGriswald]

Well presuming you take the adjuster in your hand.. push the plunger in most of of the way, and then snug up the screw and if ya want you can secure it with the nut.. now its armed.. when you put it back in and tighten it up .. then you release the locknut.. and then when you open up the screw/bolt it allows it to snap out to where the chain will let it. Ya only have to loosen the actual bolt enough to where ya here it snap and move.. then just snug it to where ya know its ok but not outrageous and then snug up the nut..

Now when its already been adjusted and you put it on the C mark and then loosen the adjuster. You may hear nothing because it barely moves or not at all.

A way to tell where you are is. If all is well .. if its adjust right and working.. put it on the C mark.. and remove the adjuster "without" loosening the bolt/nut. this shows you where the adjuster is or how much is left in its range. (you could measure or visually reference it and then let it loose and see how far it goes .. then reset it and put it back in.. then adjust and your back to normal again)

Speakin of screws I got the screws for my carbs at my local smalltown hardware hahah.. I cleaned em out. Both sets of brackets and the top plates and bowls. hehe. made my bowls allens. it was like 20 bucks . had trouble finding 3mm screws for my throttle butterflies so I bought a bag of 50 stainless ones online for like 2 bucks and change and like 6 bucks shipping. so around 8 bucks. now if i take my butterflies out again and mess up one I can indefinatly put in new ones, trim em to size and locktite em or stake whatever.

[trbig]

I am going to have to do that someday soon also. (Remove butterflies in carbs) Yeah I know.. run air filters and they'd quit sucking up the poor butterflies..

Man, Pro is going to have a Hay Day in his head with this posting...I am getting a little seepage from around my shaft.. lol.

So apparently I need some little O rings for the carbs, and maybe some Penicillin for me?

Tod

[trbig]

BUT... Back to the point.

I have to agree with TC, that if it won't start, it's because something is either out of time or bent.. or both. You can't usually get an out of time event on these bikes without getting a valve or three.

Although this does suck, getting the head off and fixing the problem isn't as big a deal as it sounds.. pretty straight forward following the book. Maybe get a small torque wrench to get the cam adjuster to it's proper torque instead of trusting the "Gootentight" method?

Tod

[oldyam80sg]

Update-I got a new metric bolt, nut, and washer from work and compressed the spring and tightened the bolt and then the nut.I had already put it on the "C" mark yesterday before it was taken off the bike.Put the housing back on the bike and tightened up the 2 bolts and I loosened the nut and bolt.I could hear the adjuster and tightened the nut.I started the bike and it started but made some noise.I shut off the bike and was wondering if i tighten the nut should the bolt be up against the rod to keep slight tension on it?What are my options as far as the noise?Obviously i don't want to ride it like that as i might have done damage already.Should i look at an engine as i don't know who would do the valve work if i need it.I'm simply too busy to work on it myself.Running out of options.

[trbig]

()!$_(!$(!$(_!(*$&_!$^*

OMG.. lol.. You have taken two shots at your valves it seems if you did what you say. Do you have a manual there with you? I'm just hoping that you left the part out about tighteneing the screw BEFORE you tighten the nut.

Here's how it works. With the nut and bolt loose, and the crank on the C mark, the spring will hold the proper tension on the adjuster WHILE IT IS SITTING THERE. You then torque the bolt on the tensioner. Centrifigul force will push the little spring on the adjuster if you don't have the stop bolt screwed down against it. This bolt is the key to the whole thing. The nut, is simply there as an extra measure to make sure this bolt doesn't loosen up as you go down the road.

So you snug down the bolt to the proper torque, then snug the nut down on top of that to hold it.

I am sorry... Just cringing at the sounds your poor motor must be making right now...

Tod

[oldyam80sg]

Actually the bike didn't make a lot of noise but i know the chain is loose.I had 3 job opportunity phone calls today and couldn't work on the bike a lot.Ran for maybe 20 seconds.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey OldYam,

Like Tod, I too am cringing at the thought of what you did AFTER what we had advised you to do and not to do!?

As many have reported, their bikes can run on 3 and even 2 cylinders, so just because it started doesn't necessarily mean you are out of trouble! Poor Jerry was just doing a tensioner adjustment, and his got slack, jumped a tooth and bent several valves!

Please, DON'T RUN it anymore until you get the new part in place, and tightened up and adjusted properly! THEN, hopefully you can get/borrow a compression tester, and test all 4 cylinders and IF they are within 10% of each other, thank your lucky stars or whatever you ask/worship, and be thankful of the good fortune you have!!

But these bikes are not necessarily turnkey type machines, they require a modest amount of maintanence. Treated correctly, they ARE very reliable, and can last over 100K miles, but if you don't care for them properly, they can and do die!!

Good Luck.
T.C.

[ClarkGriswald]

"I could hear the adjuster and tightened the nut."

So just to clarify, after you let it go and it "adjusted" and ya heard it snap.. then you tightened the nut?.. hopefully ya just mistyped that ..

Did you adjust and then tighten the bolt.. ?? and then the nut that locks it in place? . Im scared and I hope I didnt confuse the issue. What they are saying is that if you let it adjust.. and then only tightened the nut and not the adjust bolt.. you simply set the bolt in that position (which is actually not holding the plunger in place). If the plunger is loose in there and you start the bike the chain has only to push against that adjuster and it moves at will.. thats the scare. This is when teeth can jump..

If I were you, and its your bike. Take off the cam cover/valve cover.. Set your timing mark to the T mark not the C Then you can look at the cams and see the 2 dots on the shoulder of the cam next to the #3 bearing caps..

Look at the manual or any parts blowups ya can its super easy to access the top just so you can verify..

I wouldnt turn that bike one more revolution till you find out for sure, better safe then sorry. Worse case you lose some time takin off the cover mabye lose a gasket.

Edit : Im sacrificing a beer to the motorcycle gods right now for ya.. hope its ok.

2nd Edit: just to make sure.. The tensioner is meant to be adjusted and then locked in place. it does not apply spring pressure to the chain while the engine runs.. it is not intended to move unless you adjust it..