forever neutral

[randy]

It appears you've lost the c-clip that holds the shaft in place. on the other side of the engine, under the clutch, that shaft protrudes and is held in place by a c-clip, if the clip popped, it would allow the shift actuator shaft to move out.

[geniusloerts]

Originally posted by TopCatGr58


The Plate on the end of the shift drum that holds the pins in place can and apparently DID get bent, allowing the pins to fall out. DON'T try just bending the plate back, once it's bent, it looses its strength.

ok, so i looked at the fiche sheets trying to figure out which plate it is.....there are 2 plates from what i can tell.... are these the Pins and plates or am i way off?

[thewiz]

on a second look at your pics

what I think I see is that a couple of pins are still in place neither does the pin washer look that bad ... Either those loose pins have fallen out from behind the pin washer where the photo doesn't show OR they are just some extras left lying in the pan OR ....uggh ... somewhere else altogether .... but where?? I think I'm befuddled here ...

[randy]

What I think happened is the clip on the other end of shaft #21 let go, allowing the shaft to move outward. the clip probably shows on another fiche page.

[geniusloerts]

Agreed Randy...but what about those pins.......lol



i wonder if they are from a before failure?.........dunno....wish i was the original owner although i would have had to buy it before i was conceived...

after work i am going to pull the nut and lock washer off and slide the 2 plates off and see whats in there......

and i belive that middle shaft the one the left shift pawl rides on sticks out too far......Randy says that it looks like the c-clip came off..... i guess i have to pull the other side cover off.....

the shift lever is suspose to go behind the plates right?

this makes the Ricer burner honda civic transmissions look simple...hahaha

[randy]

From your photo, it looks like your pins are all in place??. You don't have to remove the nut and plate to see the pins!

Also, when you get the other side cover off, you'll need to put it in some gear to get the leverage to remove the clutch center nut - 50 ft-lbs! Use a piece of wood jammed in the spokes to stop the wheel. 27mm nut, if I remember correctly.

[geniusloerts]

think the pins are left overs or from somewhere else.....but where else in the bike does it use oins like that, and where it can get to the oil and drop out when i took the side cover off?.....dunno

[Jerry]

You might want to look at #4 and #2 in the 'fiche. It is common for a finger on #4 to break off and the 5th gear pin to slide out of position. The little 'hook' on item #28 uses these pins to upshift and downshift.

Plate is easy to change, order a couple and have a spare. Note that the 5th gear pin and one other (IIRC) poke up a bit from the face of item #1. This means #4 is not flat, one of the holders has a lift to it. This is the 5th gear pin, and the plate breaks at the bend of the lift.

Have not heard of the pins/retainer plate being a problem other than 5th, but I guess it could happen.

[geniusloerts]

a million pins all over the floor

ok so get this......the pins are all in there and the plate is not bent at all.

i got down and examened the shift cam and noticed all the pins were in there and the plate was not bent....so where did these pins come from....just that the shaft for the left shift pawl was slid out of its hole about 1/4" Randy said there was a C-clip on the other side of the motor that holds that shaft in place....

so i went and proceded to pull off the clutch cover to look for that C-clip...when behold i looked on the floor and noticed another pin....and another...and another...... over 50 of these pins on the floor....

then i got to thinking wait a minute, i just replaced my u-joint in my truck a week before and the pin bearings exploded all over the place removing the old ones.......i picked one up and compared it to the pins that i had found in the bottom of my oil catcher.....they are the same...exactly....... so those pins are not from the bike....they flew into the oil drain pan when i replaced the u-joint and got stuck in the little bit of oil that was in there already, and when i ran my hands threw the oil that i drained out the shift lever side i found them and thougt they were the pins......Put this in the stupid moment segment of the fourm.....

anyways releaved by that i was looing at my Clymer's to see how to remove the clutch assembly and reading ahead i looked at the pictures and i dont see a C-clip that would hold that shift shaft in place on that side........the shaft doesnt come through from what i can tell.........????????

More thoughts please.... Randy?

i slid the shaft back into the correct position and the shift lever engages the shift cam just like it should...

in case anyone was wondering, i am writting a novel here....LOL

[geniusloerts]

just read some more and it apears there is a gear on the other end of the shaft ....

[randy]

The shaft does come through, you have to remove the clutch to see it. IIRC, the shaft fits through the oil pump idler gear that's driven off of the clutch.

Look at the oil pump fiche page.

The only place I can imagine that those pins came from (and that many) is item #8 in the picture - BEARING - it looks to be a needle bearing, but hard to tell from the fiche.

[geniusloerts]

i dont think you caught where the needles came from....but about a week ago i changed the u-joint on my truck and those needles are from the bearings that i busted and removed.....

ah i see what you were talking about now.... i need to get that stupid bolt off......my compresser is burnt up so i will go and buy an electric impact for a temp..... tryed to bet it off by hand but it is on there and too much absorbstion to break it loose by hand.

[randy]

dont think you caught where the needles came from....but about a week ago i changed the u-joint on my truck and those needles are from the bearings that i busted and removed.....

O..M..G..
I thought that was a joke!

[TopCatGr58]

I spoke too soon!

Hey Genius,

I perhaps spoke a little too soon before I saw the rest of your photos.... ...and there may be a little bit bigger problem, see photos below!

The shift pawl...the thing with the fingers that grabs the shift drum with the pins...it rides on the shift shaft..the long rod that holds the shift forks....it has 2 "C" rings on the shifter side, one on the outside holding the shift pawl on, another under it next to the engine to keep the shaft from sliding inwards.



However, it runs ALL THE WAY across the engine, and terminates at the clutch side where there is a gear on the other end, the oil pump idler gear, and there is a "C" clip on that end of the shaft as well, again to keep it in place.



I fear that the "C" clip has come off of the clutch end of the shaft, and that's why the shaft has moved more outwards towards the gear shift side causing the misalignment of the shift pawl, etc.!

The oil pump idler gear may be loose or OFF, and you may NOT be pumping any oil while the engine is running?? I'm afraid that you will probably need to remove the clutch cover, the clutch basket and inspect that shaft/gear for proper position, or missing parts... ie. the "C" clip!?
T.C.

[geniusloerts]

T.C.

i am in the process of doing that right now..... i tried to get it off with a 1.5' breaker bar but no cigar, i borrowed a impact from a friend and just tried that 5 minutes ago but no cigar so i am going to sleep on it, gather my strenght and attack it in the morning.

Randy had clued me in awhile back and i started checking it out when i saw the pins where actually in there still and the ones i found in the oil drain pan were from my U-joint off my truck.......im a idiot

anyways will keep you posted tomorrow