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  • 2nd Gear Modifications

    Hi guys...new member here

    I've spent quite a bit of time on the XS650 board and now I'm taking on a 1978 XS1100 standard



    Above is a picture of the patient preped for surgery

    I've read the second gear post adnoseum and also what I could about the Bob Jones modification. Here is the Jones link:

    http://www.merriamcycle.com/high-performance.html

    And here is the paragraph referenced:

    "The transmission has the second gear modification with the spacer relocated on the other side of the fifth wheel gear. On a 1978 Standard the fifth wheel is in two pieces unlike later models giving better lubrication, however the replacement gears made later will interchange in this bike. Moving the spacer in question to allow full meshing of 2nd gear requires a bevel on the spacer with a hand grinder as the tran’s shaft on this model has a taper where the fifth wheel gear is riding instead of a square shoulder as the later ones do. If the spacer is moved with out making this taper to duplicate the gear that has it too. The fifth wheel will bind up on the shaft and could overheat the transmission resulting in a failure anyway, so if the modification is not made this way, the cure could be worse than the cause. "

    I'm not sure about the description above, but it reads like the reference to 2nd gear and 5th gear are reversed. Isn't this refering to the gears on the counter shaft? Mine doesn't have a bevel on the shaft where 2nd and 5th gears ride.

    Looking at the gears out of the engine, it seems like this might work if the spacer between the circle clip and the 2nd gear were moved to the other side of the 2nd gear, that would space the 2nd gear closer to the 5th gear and allow the 5th gear dogs to engage further into the 2nd gear slots.



    This pictures shows what I think is the spacer Bob wrote about, but in the OEM position.



    This picture shows where I think Bob is recommending, but the sholders are square, so I don't know what has to be ground for the beveled shaft

    Does anybody know about the Bob Jones method? I don't mind doing the beveled dog modification, but the Jones method sounds like it would be quicker.

    Also, I've been trying to contact Merriam Cycle about some of his parts, but can't get a response. I ran across a post on this site that he passed on. Does anyone know how he is and if the shop is in operation?

    Any help is appreciated
    My heros have always been flat trackers.

  • #2
    Bob did pass on a few months ago. The shop inventory is being sold off on ebay.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry to hear about Bob...he built some great looking XS1100s.

      Thanks for filling me in John.
      My heros have always been flat trackers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you in Eastern or Western OK? There is a Bob Jones Memorial Ride being planned in May, in Arkansas.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm actually in west Oklahoma City.



          I just picked up this XS750 at a garage sale a few weeks ago and got it running. Hopefully I'll pass the driver test this Friday and get a license to drive

          I don't know if I want to trust it to go as far a Arkansas yet...It only has 8,400 miles because it sat for that long

          But maybe

          Is the memorial ride posted on this site?
          My heros have always been flat trackers.

          Comment


          • #6
            John,

            I found the memorial ride posted here. June 7th is the last date mentioned. I'll look into it.

            Thanks.
            My heros have always been flat trackers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey Masher,

              First of all, did you test ride the 78 and find a problem with the 2nd gear, or are you doing this in preparation/prevention?? How many miles on the 78??

              IIRC, the swapping of the washer would be effective on a NEW machine, but most of the ones folks find have plenty of miles and therefore the gears dogs/slots are already worn/rounded off, and the washer swap ALONE won't do much. Folks need to perform the Dremmel/Die Grinder fix on the dogs and slots, and with the undercutting shaping vs. the square edges, the washer swap isn't really needed....IMHO! The new gears folks get from Yamaha have the dogs/slots already undercut!

              Have you looke at your 1st/4th gear dogs/slots, because IF your 2nd gear was failing, 1st won't be too far behind, best to recondition both sets while you're in there!

              I've not done the washer swap, so I can't advice on that aspect, but have done 3 trans repairs with successful results without the washer swap! YMMV!
              T.C.
              T. C. Gresham
              81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
              79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
              History shows again and again,
              How nature points out the folly of men!

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow that 750 is beautiful!!! How much did you give for it?

                I am in South OKC / Moore. Maybe we can meet up sometime and you can fix my carbs!!! Lol.

                Welcome to the boards!

                Scott
                1979 XS11 Special (slightly modified)
                dubbed the "Mad Mosquito"

                MikesXs Pod Filters
                MikesXs 35k Coils
                8mm plug wires
                42.5 Pilots 142.5 Mains
                (Carb tune by GNEPIG Performance)
                Kerker 4-into-1
                Shaved emblems
                Progressive frt springs lowered 1.5"
                Progressive 11.5" rear shocks
                Harley Dyna rear fender chopped
                Custm side mt tag (apparently illegal)
                Custom Dual Headlights
                Lots of time and hard work.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mashermoto
                  I'm actually in west Oklahoma City.



                  I just picked up this XS750 at a garage sale a few weeks ago and got it running. Hopefully I'll pass the driver test this Friday and get a license to drive

                  I don't know if I want to trust it to go as far a Arkansas yet...It only has 8,400 miles because it sat for that long

                  But maybe

                  Is the memorial ride posted on this site?
                  Wow, that 750 looks great. What a find for a garage sale!

                  Enjoy,

                  Don
                  currently own;
                  1980 Yamaha XS1100 SG
                  2009 Yamaha Star Raider

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    TopCat,

                    The gears may not need any attention. I may just need someone to advise me that if it ain't broke don't fix it



                    Here is a closer view of 5th gear. The dogs have a little rounding on the leading edge and very little wear on the face.



                    2nd gear is the same story...just a little rounding on the edge...not as much as on the 5th gear.



                    4th gear is in like new condition...hardly any notice of wear



                    1st gear is the same story as 4th gear...hardly any notice of wear.

                    This transmission might have already been replaired I picked the bike up with the engine already out of the frame and it came with a 1979 XS1100 Special pretty much complete except for a frame. The PO intended to use the 79 for parts, which is what I'm doing.

                    Anyway...I see three options:

                    1. Bolt it in as is and forget about it
                    2. Move the spacer, then bolt it back in and forget about it
                    3. Do the back cuts, then bolt it back in and forget about it

                    Signed,

                    Patiently waiting
                    My heros have always been flat trackers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Da,

                      Let's just say the price was reasonable

                      But I did buy it on a leap of faith. It wasn't running and didn't have a title.

                      I had to not only clean the carbs, but also had to physically pick every oriface of the carbs to open the passages. The old gas wasn't just varnished...it was packed Pretty much the same story for the front and rear brakes

                      I got the title resolved this week. The Oklahoma Tax Commission had record of the last person who registered it. That was 28 years ago in 1980 Believe it or not...I found that person in the phone book and living in your part of the country in Moore. I called him up and he has been more than happy to help me get the title in my name.

                      The last thing to fix is the petcocks. They don't just leak in the on and reserve position...they pour gas

                      BTW, if you just need help cleaning your carbs I don't mind helping out. But...tuning is another story. I can get them back to OEM specks, but I may not be much help after that.

                      Send me a PM if you want to contact me.
                      My heros have always been flat trackers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Masher,

                        I vote #3. With the gears square cut, it takes very little rounding off to cause them to start to pull apart under load. If you look closer at the 1st/2nd gears, the 6 slots, you can see the track marks of the dogs as they have slid along the edge of the gear. If you look at the tech tips, you'll see a similar pattern on the examples I showed. Since you are already there, it's a fairly simple matter to backcut the gears, and then you have that added security of knowing that they will definitely hold under FULL THROTTLE.

                        Option #1 ....you won't be able to forget about it, cause the problem will eventually rear it's ugly head!
                        T.C.
                        T. C. Gresham
                        81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                        79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                        History shows again and again,
                        How nature points out the folly of men!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          TopCat,

                          Well...I can't argue with your logic

                          I'll visit the local Harbor Freight where they know me by first name now and get some bits

                          Thanks for the advise.
                          My heros have always been flat trackers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What TC said

                            And, at Harbor freight they hav a nice set of diamond bits for cheap and they work great for that job.
                            You can't stay young forever, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

                            '78E "Pathfinder" Show bike...
                            Lovingly restored by Dave Delzell
                            Drilled airbox
                            Tkat fork brace
                            Hardly mufflers
                            late model carbs
                            Newer style fuses
                            Oil pressure guage
                            Custom security system
                            Stainless braid brake lines

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Mashermoto,

                              If you look closely, you'll see a bevel next to the shaft even though the shoulder is square. You just need to bevel the inside edge of the washer to match this bevel or the gear could fit too tightly on the shaft causing it to bind up. It's easy to do - just a couple of laps with the dremel and a light touch. If you're not switching the washer then you don't have to worry about this. I switched the washer when I did mine. If it's good enough for Bob Jones (may he rest in peace) the it's good enough for me!

                              Tim
                              Tim Ripley - Gaithersburg, MD
                              1981 XS1100 Special "Spoiled Rotten" Just sold - currently bikeless!!
                              23mm float height
                              120 main jets
                              42.5 pilot jets
                              drilled stock airbox with K&N
                              Jardine 4 to 1 Exhaust
                              spade fusebox
                              1st and 2nd gear fix

                              Comment

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