2nd Gear Modifications

[Mashermoto]

Before I go any further I need to send out a plea for advise



I took the gears out of the spare bike and tried again. I fear I have too much angle again If so I'll just reduce the angle.

What is loosing me is that I can't find a real clear picture or some kind of measurement for reference...so let me know where I'm at

[Mashermoto]

I took another look at the 5th gear this morning. I noticed I have some inconsistancies with the angle from one dog to the next. From the top of the arc they are about the same, but not all the way around the arc.



As you can see here...this is the original cut that was way too deep



Here is where I am now. At the center of the arc each dog is about the same from this view.



Another view of the first attempt



And again the second attempt. This is almost like when I go to the eye doctor and he flips those lens as you read the eye chart...better or worse



This is where I found I'm not consistant with the angles. From the back view this dog looks flat.



This one from the back is much more angled...maybe even a little deep.

Sooooo...Top Cat or others...do any of these views show too much angle on the dog If not I'll get them all looking the same and move on to the slots...If so I'll follow your lead

This afternoon Masher is loading the two varmits up in the truck and heading off to Tinker AFB for the big air show, but I'll check back in to see if anybody else is staying local for the holiday

Later

[motoman]

Your last pic shows that angle to be just fine. Watch tho, and don't let the outer ege of dog be rounded off. Leave the edge squared off as engagement will eventually round it off unless you shift bike well enough to not even feel the shift take place.. Mine are angled enough that occassionally it is a bit hard to go from second to first, just engage clutch loading things again and dissengage again making the downshift. Also, the dogs where engaging the full width of slots for whatever reason, so I did not change washer position.

[Mashermoto]

Thanks Motoman,

I will need to take some more meat off to get the square shoulders on the second set. I would think that these gears will hold up to it

Do you (or others) think that first set would hold up if I were to remove the meat necessary to reduce the angle on them As you can see, I would probalby need to take a half to one millimeter off the square end to do it.

Practice makes perfect

[trbig]

You need to get a micrometer and try to get all the dogs ground to the same width. I think this is going to be more critical than the actual degree of cut. I think even the way you had them in the first pics would have worked... but I do like the second try better.


Same with the slots the dogs fit into. You can measure the grinded (Ground?) surface to the uncut surface of the slot above it to get them all as close as possible to being the same.

You don't need to be absolutely (Pardon the term) anal about this. Get it close, and the bike will wear everything together. The gears aren't going to mesh much past the 9 mark on your very first pic, even with the washer swap, so a squared edge at the top is prefered, as motoman stated. You can look at the back side of the dog that you have been grinding and see the shiny part to tell how much the gear was meshing. This side is used for deceleration. As you can see.. it ain't much! lol


Tod

[Mashermoto]

Trbig,

No need to pardon the anal reference...I am self confessed anally retentive and quite obsessive when it comes to bike building

But apparently my relentless pursuit of perfection provides great entertainment for the XS lover...I think they might be living vicariously through the Mashermoto posts

As of today there have been over 1,400 good folks dropping in to read about a 2nd gear modification The Mashermoto's Big Street Tracker Adventure on the XS650 site has almost 8,000 hits

Now I know those folks ain't reading this stuff because they just want to send some love Masher's way Nope...I think it's because they have a love of knowledge...and guys like you and Top Cat and XSPaster and Motoman and everyone else that takes their valuable time and knowledge to provide input is the grease that makes it all work Lots of pictures doesn't hurt either

So, I hope you will stay with me and at the same time keep the entertainment going for all our good friends

Now...back to work

You provided me some great insight that I hadn't realized. That is, the gears will tend to shape themselves as they mesh. I have also been following your suggestion and using dial calipers to keep the deminsions within 2 or 3 thousands...that's probably plenty close considering the wear-in factor.

I have been hesitant to remove too much meat due to the what the late Bob's comments were about the gear case hardening. He thought there was only so much surface available to grind off before one ground through the hardening. This second set of gears has rounding that requires a bit more meat removal to get a square edge. So I guess it's either make like a tennis shoe and "Just Do It," or spend the big bucks on a new set

My take is that folks on this site recommend to just do it So I will

Now then...here is a new consideration. Does it make sense to polish the newly ground surface areas? The consideration is this; if polished, would the gear tend to move more easily to the locked position under acceleration like we want, but also slip out easier when we want to sift gears?

What do ya think?

[trbig]

Do you polish rings and cylinders before assembly?

The "Anal" thing comes to mind again.... lol.

Just stuff it back together and it will wear together and polish itself. Look at the area of the dogs that hasn't been meshed. How shiny and polished does that look? Pretty rough and cast looking huh! As for taking too much meat and possibly getting past the hardness of the gears.... there has been many many people that have done this fix over the last 30 years. If it were a problem, you'd see a lot of

"This fix works for a little while, but the dogs just won't hold up afterwards for very long".

I have heard of one or two extreme cases where a dog did in fact break off, but these are very rare. In almost every case, this is a permanent fix that will last the life of the bike.... or at least the life of YOU!! (Then the next guy can worry about it!)


Tod

[Mashermoto]

Well...I have read about folks treating their cylinders with stuff after a new bore job...but I get your point

Thanks for the help