Guides or rings causing the smoke?

[oldman prof]

Dammit!!! You guys teach me so much,this must be one of the best threads EVER,Iknow I sound like kid in sweet shopbut I mean it,Ijust wish we had some decent forums in SA,our forums are like social get togethers for people who have the money to talk about who's getting what new bike.
Thank guys go for it!!
Anthony

[jurgenkoppen]

Prom and all other who care,
I am working the carb issue to death, or to life, would be even better.
I have them out. Noticed that my pilot screws were out 2 full turns, brought them back to 1 1/4 turn as per Clymer manual.
Finally saw the real important part about the float level, ie: measure from gasket base--not from the rim. That caused my confusion before, the rim is 3.2 mm higher up than the gasket base....
So, I reset the levels to spec 23mm.
Replaced the diaphragm with the crack and again carb cleaned all passages and blew them out after. Since my successful assembly of my leak- down test unit with some vacuum pump and propane fittings I had kicking about, I now have a very nice blow-through attachment with a tiny end nozzle for my compressor.
So I am optimistic that my previous mistakes here still can be corrected.
I'll let you know asap, how it all panned out.

If good, I will re-attack the leak at the very left front of the oil pan. It is around one of the bolts which only can be reached with the header off. This is going to be my 3rd run at that bitch, and this time I'll take the pan off altogether and goop gasket sealant on top of the gasket...unless you tell me otherwise.
Then I'll put in 20W50.
I might have been guilty of dumping cheaper car oil, such as 10W30 in a few times, because it was available when I once again ran low...and i was about to burn or loose it anyway within 200miles

BTW, there was a tiny bit of oily residue in the air box, when I removed the carbs.
The petcock issue: My petcocks had been backwards ( like so many other things) since I got the bike, ie: the cock marked R is on the left, resulting in 'Prime' being 'Off' . I have gas come out on all settings, except on 'Prime' ( which is 'Off') . So I'll switch that back around, just to keep all the factors which might contribute to the "gas into the oil" possibility"
Back to here after the carb install, feeling better already, hoping for the best......J

[79XS11F]

I may need to be corrected here but I was told by a seasoned mechanic that blue smoke is burned oil and usually caused by worn or stuck rings. Theory being that excess oil on the cylinder walls is burned and exhausted. It would be an on going condition and increase with higher RPMs.
White smoke is so much excess oil that it can't be the rings alone unless they are really TOAST and of perhaps broken. It is too much oil to burn so the smoke is white. It is a consistent condition that also increases with higher RPMs. It is usually caused by poor valve seals, poor valve seats or poor valve adjustment, excessive valve stem to guide clearances. While smoke can of course also be a combination of both ring and valve issues.
So run the tests that have been recommended after checking the valve adjustments. Start with the simplest possible cause and go from there. It would be a shame to rip the head off if the valves just need adjusting.
Rob

[jurgenkoppen]

Now I am smokin'the good way,eh

Gentleman,

Just re-installed my freshly un-dicked carbs, namely without a rip in #2 diaphragm, and with floats adjusted to 23mm as per spec.

And, dear reader, she is smokin' allright, but not the bad smoke as before, but the good smokin' as in: hold on to the handlebar or else....
So , there was no plume anymore, and lots of power. I did some tests on a straight stretch, looking at the color of my prevoiusly sooty plugs:
1) Now they are light grey with bits of whitish spots on electrodes (Too lean now?) after a full bore rippin down the road test.

2)They are aluminum grey after cruising down the road.

3) They are tan after slowly going back down my 2mile driveway downhill, no popping or backfiring.

Maybe all is well??? Or is this considered too lean? Any opinions on this?

Next, I must fix the pesky oil leak. Off come the headers again, I am starting to get good at that as well.
Hey, it is winter here now anyways.
Cheers, Jürgen

[prometheus578]

"I can't call myself a seasoned mechanic..."

I'm more like a marinated one.
Good job, Jurgen.
I'd say your plug color is just about right. white/gray/tan.
Oily residue in the airbox could easily be from the oil that you use to oil the air filter dripping down over time. A puddle of oil could mean it's coming from the engine case blow-by tube. Fuel from the airbox means the carbs are overflowing, usuallly resulting in fuel running forward into the cylinders and down past the rings.
If you're cheap like me, you could do that gasket that way. Just clean it up first with some Brakleen or other solvent.
I run Castro 20w50, as do a lot of others here. Years ago, there was a difference between car and motorcycle oils. Not so much today, as cars run hotter and at higher revs, like bikes do. Stay away from "Friction Modifier" additives.
Actually, stay away from all additives. If they were that great, they'd already be in the oil.

[jurgenkoppen]

Thank you Prom, TC, Ken and Rob,

Without all your help I would by now be sticking the '79 engine I just bought into my bike, to find that she still smokes....
I'd be really heading for the therapist then for sure.
So yeah, big thank you to you all. Come and see me when you are biking into my hood, I'll put you up for a few nights and talk shop. My lil' abode in the back woods is what most city folk go ballistic over.
I mean it, we got room and I'll love to have excuse to not work in my wood shop, but do bike-related stuff.Tinker or ride....
So now I have the other engine sitting there, and once my oil leak is plugged, I must either sell it, or build another bike around it. Whichever comes first.
I'll post again, once I hopefully get the oil consumption into normal realms.
Cheers to all, and big thank you again.You made my week!

Jürgen

[Ken Talbot]

Hey, nice looking 'shack in the woods', and great looking kayaks! Is that Leonberger with you in the second photo?

[jurgenkoppen]

Leos, you bet...

Ken,
yeah, that is one of my three Leonberger girls.
We are breeders to those gentle non-druling giants. My wife is the genetics expert,here
are some more pics , incl. puppies etc.
Jürgen

[Ken Talbot]

Ah, I thought so, Jürgen. A co-worker of mine, and his wife, a former co-worker, own a couple of Leonbergers, and are currently looking after another. Perhaps you've met Val and Bill Beard?

[jurgenkoppen]

Sure

Ken, I sure do.
They are our Leo buddies and just this year, they were here with us, looking into buying into a land co-op we created next door. Unfortunately they ended up not doing it, or they would become my neighbors as well.
Hey, the world is small, and Canada is like a village.The male leo they are looking after is actually one of our breeding, but the original owners could not keep him for reasons beyond their control.

Back to bikes, to justify or ramblings on the forum. If you see anywhere in your vicinity a xs11 with a blown or missing engine, I would like to know and possibly buy the smoldering remains, since I now have a spare '79 engine.I would like to perhaps build a bike around it, just for the shear joy of tinkering.
I know that Andreas Weiss in Ossyous has a rolling frame, but it has been picked clean, so to speak.
So I just to put out the word.....
Cheers, Jürgen

[jurgenkoppen]

On to the valve seal replacement

Hi, its me again.

So now after de-dicking my carbs last fall, and fixing all my oil leaks she is still consuming oil.

So I guess I must do the valve seals after all, to maintain a smoke free environment.

Is there any wisdom or tech bulletin on this site on that process? I was hoping for some input on this job from the experts.

By now I feel a bit more confident about 'going in': I now have even a successful second gear fix under my belt. (on one of the fixer uppers I aquired to place the engine I had bought and did not need for my Chicago bike)
Anyways, it is more fun to do it with you guys to consult ......

Cheers, Jürgen

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jurgen,

There isn't a specific tip for replacing the valve seals. And there are 2 ways of doing it. One is to NOT take the head off, but use a compressor connected to the spark plug hole, rotate the engine so that the valves for the cylinder you are working on are closed.
OR.....use a long length of rag that you can stuff down into thru the spark plug hole leaving some sticking out, but enough to allow you to turn the engine to have the piston push up and compress the rag against the valve to keep/hold it closed so you can then compress the springs...again using a special home made tool to be able to remove the 2 small valvle spring cap keepers and then remove the springs, and then the valve seal and replace, and then put it all back together. I think you also have to remove the cam to be able to get the bucket out. With the spark plugs removed, and both cams removed, you can still turn the engine/crank without fear of damaging the valves. But you can't check the condition of the valve seats and valves for signs of burns/wear, not properly sealing if you don't take the head off.

SO....the other technique is to remove the head, but this then requires getting a costly head gasket or complete set, and you'll need a different special valve spring compressor tool, along with a simple valve lapping tool and compound....since you're already there, might as well recondition the valve seat/seal by lapping them!

Make sure you have a manual!!!
Folks have posted photos about these special tools and such, a search for valve job/lapping will probably reveal them!
T.C.

[Guy_b_g]

I bought this valve spring compressor from mikes xs:

http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-tools...ategory_id=7.1

(scroll down 2/3rds of the page..)

Works real nice for $30

[jurgenkoppen]

compressing valves with simple clamp

Hey, here is my wood shop clamp pressing on a 3/4"schedule 40 PVC pipe with flare and a access hole cut in,as a valve depressing tool. The flared part fits like a glove into the spring depression:













Probably has been done before, however it works very well, easy access to the little wedges.
I experimented on a head I have kicking about, before deploying it on my bike.

Now I am thinking about developing a method to do the job with head still on.
Still trying to figure out how to depress my PVC pipe in situ.
Thinking about deploying a bar clamp over both valves of a given cylinder, and then using a modified turnbuckle wedged between the bar and my pvc attachment to press down on the springs.I'll keep you posted, if I get it to work.

However, if I end up going via the other option of removing the head, I have a few questions:
I hear that the E and F heads had bigger valves resulting in better fuel economy. How can I identify which head is of what type bike? I have 2 extra heads, but could not find any real parts number on them, other than a this one:YV77, and a big 2 on one and a big 1 on the others underside.
If I exchange heads I would like to put on a 78 or 79 head, I could prep it all with good new seals, lap the valves etc.
I could post an image of my heads if anybody can identify them, and if one of them is a 78/79, I would consider installing it.
Any thoughts on this?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jurgen,

Measure the diameters of the valves themselves!

The early XS's, 78-80 had smaller valves:

XS in=36mm Ex=31mm

The later 81 and XJ's had larger valves:
in= 38mm ex= 32mm.

SO...if you find them small, then you'll know you've got the 78-80 head. IF you find them large, then you've got the 80-81 head.

T.C.