Ignition Module

[Ken Talbot]

Re: Can't believe I'm back here again with a bike that still doesn't work

Originally posted by sailor202
"Yep it was the pick up coil, I fixed the wires, come and get the bike". Well I went and rode it home, it was terrible, I was really pissed, still am. Half the time I was running on two cylinders, the motor cutting in and out at various speeds.

This means your mechanic found and fixed one of the breaks. He probably found an obvious one, and missed one at the crimp retainer just before the wires leave the housing. DAMHIKIJD....

[sailor202]

That's what I'm thinking or the wires he "fixed" simply came apart. What I didn't like was I had a whole new unit shipped to him to install and he decided it wasn't necessary. Oh well, I've just been lazy on this bike for too long,lol. First thing I'll do is recheck the pick-up coil and swap it out if needed, if that isn't the answer,ummm

[Axel]

4RO for 10M

All I'm sure of is the 4RO TCI has been working in my XJ for the better part of last year and this season as well . They were not plug-and play . I had to reverse the wiring on the pickup plug (the two grounds for the orange and grey pickup wires) as the ground is in a different pin(s) on the 4RO . The bike runs great .

[sailor202]

Starting over

Finally found time to look at the bike - even started it. It was terrible, didn't want to idle, backfiring thru exhaust, blowing some smoke. I have the pick-up coil set that I got on ebay so this week I'm going to switch mine out. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will make a difference.
Sailor202

[Axel]

Its typical that if your problem is electrical you lose either cylinders 1&4 or 2&3 . My bike would run barely so I felt the header pipes to see which ones got warm . This clued me into which pickup wire was bad ,or whick part of the TCI was bad or which part of the wiring harness was bad or which coil was bad . After that spark plug wires and caps were checked . Randy has a test on his page (I had to click on it twice) to test the TCI/pickup circiut . If they are good you know its between the coils and the plugs . Have you put in new plugs ? Cheaper stuff first is what I do . If you have a nice spark at all plugs then ignition is working (somewhat) . Randy's page

http://home.ptd.net/~theragos/index.htm

[Axel]

Aftermarket TCI for XJ11

Anybody have thoughts on one of these ?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/YAMAHA-FJ-XJ-400-750-900-1100-1200-IGNITION-IGNITIONS_W0QQitemZ200221957336QQihZ010QQcategoryZ35594QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[oldnortonrider]

Axel ~ the eBay TCI that you're showing in the clickie is what I need, but I'd need to make the pin swap/change because I've got a 4RO '81 Special ~~ I just discovered after being enlightened by this thread, PO had put a 2H7 TCI on this 4RO motorcycle. Should work shouldn't it? I doubt, I'm going to have much success finding a 4RO box, plus the one at the link is new. I've run this machine for 14 years~~40,000 miles since~~runs fine above 3500 rpm~~poor power in some areas below, and really bad gas mileage. And a noticeable difference in performance in that lower rpm operation, if I don't always run hi-test premium fuel.

?............or a 10M , if I ran onto one, and did the pin swap?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Carlton,

Okay, you've got an 81SH with a 2H7 TCI. But do you still have just the 81SH Timing plate with just the vacuum advance?

IF so, take the timing parts from your 79SF and swap them with the 81's!! That will get you the needed timing advance, because you aren't getting hardly ANY with the 81's vac. only, hence poor mileage. It should be getting more advance in the mid/higher rpms than it has now....IF it has just the 81 plate.

The 10M TCI is just as rare and probably even more $$ to find, and you would need to get a different vacuum sensor, the XJ one, wouldn't be able to use the XS one, plus more wiring needed to connect the vacuum sensor to the TCI!!
T.C.

[Axel]

TCI game

As far as I know a 2H7 doesnt not replace a 4RO . The aftermarket TCI is for a XJ and does not mention XS. I have used a 4RO instead of a 10M with the pin swap but I have not tried using 10M on a XS ,only a 4RO on a XJ . They are different . While my bike runs well , it does run different than original ...gas mileage is not that great at present.
They're are a lot of 4RO TCI's out there somewhere . At least as many as 10M's . 10M's are more pricey I find .
Andreas sent me a 4RO in the mail and it never arrived - I'm still hopng . I guess some guy at Canada Post needed one ...
I still want to get a 10M TCI and return it to normal .

[oldnortonrider]

I'm thinking (and hoping) that he probably left timing plate as is with the vacuum set-up, that wouldn't have the centrifugal behind it. Yeah, I had thought about the changeup from putting the centrifugal from my 79 on it. My pickup coil wires have been working so well since last time I fixed 'em (2nd time).....(heh-heh) I hate to even think about jostlin' them from all their curled around positions. Kinda like re-arranging their DNA.

....somewhere on down the road, I would think we'd need to know about using that TCI that Axel's link is about~~and pin change.

[oldnortonrider]

ok.....I see Axel's post now; wasn't on there when I started typing my post above. I can see what he's meaning about the 4RO not wanting to be replaced with 10M type. Wonder if Randy's had a 10M apart, like he shows the two others on his site. Guess I'm just curious about the swapover possibles. I got a different picture of the situation, after Axel says the XJ still not running like it would if it had a 10M back on it.

[Axel]

10M vs 4RO

Dont get me wrong . It runs well . Just not exactly the same . I didnt check my fuel mileage before the change over . Gas is $1.20 litre in Canada now so ...
I have had the 4RO and the 10M apart . Thats why I know they are totally different . But in theory they are similiar . When I had them apart I noticed the pin difference for the ground . When I switched the wires in the plug -I had life . Life compared to a dead bike on a sunny day is like EUREKA - I'm sure you know what I mean
I asked Randy about the 10M . He said he hadnt been into one at that time . He said he would need a pinout diagram to see the difference. I think there is one on the wiring diagram in the manual . I still want to send him my 10M to check out . I resoldered the whole thing but I'm an amateur and components may be bad .

[oldnortonrider]

heh-heh

[B]"2H7..........." number[/B ]on PU coil plate. Just checked and eyeballed it. Yup; PO had changed that, too.
draaaat! No extra horsepower with that discovery.

[TopCatGr58]

It might be a matter of timing?

Hey again Carlton,

Refresh my memory, what mods if any do you have on your machine, stock pipes, aftermarket, OEM airbox or Indy filters, jetting???

Also, okay, it has the 2H7 timing plate, does it actually have the Cent. Adv. weights/springs behind it???

Remember, the 81 was a reduced performance XS11 by that time due to EPA, changes in cams, valves, Comp Ratio dropped to 9.0:1 vs. 9.2:1, etc.!

With aftermarket pipes and Indy filters, I had to rejet a few sizes higher, but mine still doesn't seem like it has a lot of grunt below 3K rpm, but I almost never run that low anyways!

I just rechecked the timing stats on the bikes, the 79 vs. the 81. The 1,100 rpm idle static advance on the 81 was 5 degrees where as the timing on the 79 is 10 degrees BTDC. Below is a photo of the timing plate from Ken's PUC repair tip:

If you'll note, it shows a "T" which is TDC, but it also has an "F", which appears to be at the 10 degree mark, which is what I would think the timing light should indicated aligned with the pointer when the bike is idling! Have you checked your timing with a timing light, and where was it hitting/flashing?

Since you are NOW using the 2H7 TCI and timing plate, I would think that you would want to use the more advanced 10 degree timing mark when setting/adjusting the timing. I know that if an engine isn't advanced enough, it will have less power, poor mileage, and run hotter! And remember, the vacuum advance is also a retarding device under strong throttle/load situations!

Something to look into I think!?
T.C.

[oldnortonrider]

Have no aftermarket stuff on it except the pod filters.

Only way I know that the centrifugal apparatus would be behind the plate, other than the number on it would be to have to pull it off. I can't imagine the PO that changed the plates, woulda changed them for any other reason, that to git the centrifugal onto it.

Timing; when I replaced the camchain in November, I decided to start playing with the timing. There was nothing really wrong with the timing in my opinion, I mostly wanted to experiment, with it. And it was running really good with the new shims and new chain, above 32-3300~~it pulled really good. I don't use lights; did when I wuz younger, because it takes a lot experience > trial and error, to finally be able to know when it's timed by feel, and the performance. I drove this fine scooter, for about three weeks, without the timing cover (after November), so I could keep changing the timing plate~~you know the drill. I don't know what degrees it's timed at, but after about three weeks and about 10 different changes, I got it improved to where I was satisfied, and decided to keep it there. And finally put the timing cover back on. Main thing that I wuz happy about, is that I got it to start a whole lot better, without sacrificing any power, and actually got a marked improvement in the power, where it was already strong at~~32-3300 and on up. The carburetors, definitely need a thorough going through; been 10 years since I did 'em, and did one of them twice. And I'm keen on the mercury synchronizer; one of the reasons I've procrastinated on the needed carb work, is that I know I'll need to get new rubber hoses for the synchronizer.

I had a new '72 Lincoln that I put a new Accel solid state ignition on, that included a new Accel distributor. No advance. Timed it by feel, but love those Fords~~distributor in the front. Got a '78 Suburban here, that I bought new with a 454, and have had other multifarious new GMC vehicles (no complaint) ~~but, distributor in the back.

Getting back to timing the motorcycle, though~~If a person is going to have only one shot at timing it, he'd have to use a light; couldn't start playin' with it, and have only one guess .