The worst possible problem

[Pat Kelly]

Intermittent electrical......
Got the LG back on the road yesterday, runs great. Except....
Occasionally it won't start. And it occasionally just quits, and won't start.
Everything else electrical works. Turn on the key and the oil and neutral light come on along with the taillight. The turnsignals work. Push the starter button and nothing, sometimes. Turn the key of and back on and it might start, or not. When it starts again it runs fine until "something" happens again. Got about 3/4 mile from home and it wouldn't start at all.
Time to break out the test light and have some fun.
BTW, when it was down for the big-bore kit I did clean and (non-conductive) dilectric grease all the connectors. Should have left them alone. Also made all new battery/ground cables with 'O' gauge cable and new connectors. Yes it has the OEM fuseblock and it is in perfect condition. The clips are strong that it's difficult to pry the fuses out.

[mro]

Push the starter button and nothing, sometimes

So.....
does that mean it won't crank, or won't fire???


mro

[Ken Talbot]

Re: The worst possible problem

Originally posted by Pat Kelly
The clips are strong that it's difficult to pry the fuses out.

Take each fuse out and pull to see if any have broken under the cap. I've seen glass fuses that look good, but the end cap had broken loose and caused intermittent 'open' condition.

[Brian_D]

Re: The worst possible problem

Originally posted by Pat Kelly
....
Occasionally it won't start. And it occasionally just quits, and won't start.
Everything else electrical works. Turn on the key and the oil and neutral light come on along with the taillight. The turnsignals work. Push the starter button and nothing, sometimes. Turn the key of and back on and it might start, or not.

excluding the tip-over switch, can only think of three possibilities:
a) intermittent main switch - since indicator lights always work, red (power) and blue (lighting) connections should be good but need to check the brown (ignition) wire.
b) intermittent OFF-RUN switch
c) bad ground to handlebars for the start button - however this should not cause the bike to quit.

[Pat Kelly]

Originally posted by mro

So.....
does that mean it won't crank, or won't fire???


mro

Dosen't crank.
Didn't even look at it today. Worked on the trailer for a bit.
I sould check the fuses themselves.
Does this bike have the tip-over switch?
I did check inside the OFF-RUN switch. Looks brand new inside.
I did swap to superbike bars (when I 1st got it last year). I painted them black except for under the mount area and the ends under the switches and grips.
I do have another TCI box that I may swap just for giggles.

[79XS11F]

Check the main switch and kill switch. From your description I would be inclined to think it's the main switch (key switch). Unless yo flipping the kill switch as well as re-trying the main switch it is likely the mine switch.
I was having a similar issue with my bike when I got it and did not want to have different keys so when i got the new switch I rebuilt the one I had using my key cylinder and the new parts from the new switch. It was a fiddle fart sort of job but works good.
Rob

[Brian_D]

Pat,
all the XS models have the tip-over switch, however this is not your problem if the bike won't crank - bad tip-over will only cause a no fire condition.

sure beginning to sound like a bad/intermittent main switch. they are very easy to clean once removed from the bike.

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

I had a problem last year with the Kill switch. I used it on a friend's driveway becuase I didn't have enough hands to hold the bike on the hill and shut the key off. BC wouldn't fire after that. I had to take the control off, there was some dirt in the contacts and they stayed open after I switched it back.

[mro]

Dosen't crank.

Could point to a "Intermittent" problem with starter switch (relay)

two wires from it go to TCI which could account for it to stop when running, also can account for "Dosen't crank".
Would check it's connectors first.......


mro

[Pat Kelly]

Got to tinkering on the bike trying to find the problem.
Followed the battery voltage to the starter solenoid and off the the connector headed into the bowels of the wiring harness.
I tried my spare TCI box and also nothing.
I also looked at the OFF-RUN-OFF switch. When I disassembled it I discovered that the switch housing is broken. I swapped it with the switch on my E and still nothing. I tried the broken switch on the E and the E cranked so the broken switch is actually OK.
I ran out of time to work on it so I reassembled everything back to the way it was. When I went to start the E to go to work it cranked once then nothing. Just like the LG.....ARGH!!!!

Question:
If I connect the two wires that go to the OFF-RUN switch will I just be by-passing the switch (always RUN)?

To recap. When I turn the key on I have the oil and neutral lights, the turn signals and brake light all work. Push the starter button and the bike(s) don't crank.

I hate electrical problems.

I'd like to fix this before I get to post #2000.

[randy]

Pat,

Could be a bad solenoid. Have you tried jumping across the solenoid terminals? Try an old screwdriver across the two battery lugs on the solenoid, it should crank even without the key on.

Also, there is a small red wire on the solenoid that gets power when the starter button is pressed. Check that action too.

[webbcraft2150]

Similar problem, found fried wire in connector from ign switch to headlight bucket.

And...I have been "burned" by more than one glass fuse that looked good but was broke in the cap.

Fuse box replacement on the 'round to it list.

Electrical problems are right up there with "why won't it idle".

[Brian_D]

Originally posted by Pat Kelly
...
Question:
If I connect the two wires that go to the OFF-RUN switch will I just be by-passing the switch (always RUN)?

Yes, connecting the two R/W wires leading to the OFF-RUN switch will provide an 'always' RUN. However, before bypassing the switch, test for voltage going to the switch:

with the main switch ON and the OFF-RUN switch in RUN, back probe the two R/W wires leading to the OFF-RUN switch.
a) no voltage on either lead, unplug the OFF-RUN switch and retest; if still no voltage on either lead then bad main switch or ignition fuse. if voltage on 1 lead, then OFF-RUN switch causing short to ground.
b) voltage on only one R/W lead, bad OFF-RUN switch.
c) voltage on both R/W leads, problem with starter solenoid.

[mro]

If I connect the two wires that go to the OFF-RUN switch will I just be by-passing the switch (always RUN)?

Yes

_______

starter solenoid

>>>"Intermittent" problem with starter switch (relay)>>>Yam manual calls it "starter switch", Clymer calls it "starter Selinoid", Ford calls it a "starter relay" , I some times call it round electric thing that hooks directly to battery.
_______

Could be that you have more than one problem area.
The "don't crank"..........
1)starter buttom on control >>>had to replace mine as it had the intermitant problem of not allways making contact when pushed.
2)bad selinoid.....blue/white wire goes from handle bar starter button switch to "selinoid". (bad handle bar switch button or "selinoid" or even a short/open in the wire can cause the the "no crank", but should not stop engine after it has started.
3)bad starter
_______
"Stops running"
This could be caused by many different things

1)As you mentioned the engine stop switch on right control is damaged, that should be repaired or by-passed first.
(this switch will keep engine from running but does not keep the starter from cranking)
2)back to the "starter selinoid"
A)red/white wire on "starter selinoid" goes to three places, TCI, Resister and right hand bar control.
B)red/yellow wire goes from "starter selinoid" to TCI and should only have power when starter button on control is pushed.
C)blue/white wire goes from handle bar starter button switch to "starter selinoid".

Should "starter selinoid" be bad, A) red/white wire could cause engine to stop running.
3) if above don't solve problem then need to check key switch, pick up-coil wires, etc. etc. etc.


mro

[randy]

1)As you mentioned the engine stop switch on right control is damaged, that should be repaired or by-passed first.

.

(this switch will keep engine from running but does not keep the starter from cranking)

On my 79, the stop switch keeps the engine from cranking