5 3/4 turns out on the idle and still runs bad

[mason79]

i got rid of the pods, with them on with the mac 4 to 1's they ran fine,

then with the stock airbox, they were fine with 4 turns out,

then me and planedick synced the carbs, and from that point on it runs like crap below 2 or 3 k, no matter where i turn it.

the plugs look a tad rich, planedick thinks it's the coils , i measure the resistance on all of them good,

just wanted to ask here first ,maybe there is an eaisier way to go, than to figure it out myself

is that many turns out the same as a need for 1 up on the pilot air jet?
should i go up 1 on the main, remember no jetting changes with pods and mac 4to1, please assist, thanks

[Ken Talbot]

If you think it is looking rich, you would want to turn the pilot screws back in, not our further which richens the low-speed mixture. Where are the floats set?

[mason79]

turing in makes it worse, you got me on the floats everyone is precise, i just don't see me getting that precise with it, i got it even across the board at around and inch,

please don't make me go in there....

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Mason,

Like Ken said, the Pilot screw adjusts the fuel/air mix, turns in=lean, turns out = rich. Going up a size on the PILOT JET would make it richer. Most folks don't change the air jet. Your floats set around 1 inch = 25mm, should be right.

Put OEM air box back on. Did you check the SNORKEL for kinks, trash, etc., someone found a missing socket in theirs which caused it to be too rich! Also, did you reconnect the upper "T's" to the airbox vent ports? Did you verify that those ports/fittings on the airbox were open, not clogged with fuel/oil/dust debri?

Hate to say it, but you might want to revisit the synch since that's when it started running poorly?? Did you reconnect the vacuum advance to the correct port on the carb body??

The airbox should not make it leaner than with the PODS, and you say you did not make any jetting changes from the beginning. I ran 4-1's on my machine for years without any jet change, only made change after putting PODS on mine and rebuild topend.
T.C.

[TADracer]

Mason, I know you dont want to hear this but sometimes it is best to just clear your head and start from scratch.

Get a piece of paper and write down how you want to set up your bike, ie exhaust, filters, etc. Then use the guidelines to add/subtract jet sizes from the stock sizes and set your carbs up that way. And yes, bowl level will make a difference. Your pilot jet sizes should be such that your idle mixture screws make the engine smooth out when you get about 1 1/2 turns or so out. Pilot jets are important because the pilot circuit is working during most street riding conditions.

And one more thing, check your spark plug heat range. Too cold a plug will make your machine appear rich when it might not be and will affect your low end performance. On average the spark plug tip should operate around 1200 degrees to adequately burn off deposits. If your plug takes too much heat from the combustion chamber, it will foul up, run rough and sputter at low RPM. A hotter plug (one that does not remove as much combustion heat from the head) will raise the chamber temp. On my present set up, the stock NGK - BP6Es plugs were always dark and sooty so I changed one step hotter to a BP5ES and the problem dissappeared without any other adjustment.

Its a balancing act and changing one thing leads to other changes so you have to check them all.

[mason79]

thanks gents i will consider yuor suggestions and take action,

heck i never actually turned the screws in from 1.5 out, i'll try that and thanks again, great site!!!

[goldcoastguy001]

Check your pilot jets arent blocked too...(next to your main jet)....the hole is sooooo small it is easy to have a small partical block one up.....TADracer is right too...sometimes you need to clear your head and start over, you ay find that you've got a simple problem that your missing and the idle screws are just trying to cover it up..

[mason79]

carbs yeah lovit, thats why i bought the bike

not to ride but to beat my brains and to practice offing and awning the airbox.

stutters below, 3 k , cleaned carb, upped pilot from 42.5 to 45
no real difference, back to 42.5, looked a little cruddy cleaned them, i use an inline, why cruddy i don't know, maybe cheap inline?

checked floats close enough

bench synced again, rememeber i rode the bike for a year with this method and it made responsive and impressive power.

check for vacuum leaksm bung plugs hard i plug vacuum ports with new, no difference

idle air screws don't mak e any differnece.

so like in the beginning of the thread, ran fine with the 4 to 1 , stock jets, 4 turns out, until i synced it with a stick by planedick.

should i slap the stock exhaust back in to tune, man what a hassle.

[DiverRay]

Mason,
Are ALL of the plugs fouling, or maybe just two, such as 1&4??? have you checked the pickup coil wires? I know this is a carb thing, but if you have a pickup coil wire going, that may give you some of the same symptoms.
Just my thoughts....

[mason79]

yes i check as per your suggession on another similar thread,

they are in the distributor right? those soft wires, well one outa four was taped over , i retaped with pliable electric tape the old one was stiff, it covered an area which was chafed, i louped (10x)the wire and the strands were intacted albeit, some are broken

all four plugs black when i went to the 45 pilots,didn't check when back to the 42.5s i never made it run well enuff to ride it.

[TopCatGr58]

Mason,

Even though you used pliable tape, it's still tape, stiffer than just the wire, which could prevent or reduce the timing plates rotation. Not to mention, like you said, some of the wires were broken, most likely more elsewhere. You probably need to pull all the tape off, inspect for other broken PU coil wires, and replace with NEW test meter lead from Radio Shack or other supply!

Then those NEW coils will be able to fire properly, and you'll probably find your lost power, and your carbs, pipes will pbobably be okay!
T.C.

[oseaghdha]

Runs bad after synch

Not the first time this has come up.
Wondered about this because you can open or close the butterflys to match them up. However, are there not transfer ports right at the idle position that are partially uncovered when the trottle is "closed"? I don't recall right now.
If so, and you open up to gain synch that would mess up the signal.
The bread ties gets you close I suppose, but is there a specification for the starting gap?
I put the stix on mine and lost some off the bottom, but I blamed it on needing to do a clean.

[mason79]

nope...

checked the pickup wires all good the chafing was just that, no a malfunction.

stutters bad , could it be the tci?

sync? i'll make my own with a vacuum gauge and a plenum...

[Ken Talbot]

Originally posted by mason79
sync? i'll make my own with a vacuum gauge and a plenum...

If it has not been sync'd, then it needs to be sync'd. There's just no getting away from the need for a proper tune-up.

[mro]

stutters below, 3 k , cleaned carb, upped pilot from 42.5 to 45
no real difference, back to 42.5, looked a little cruddy cleaned them, i use an inline, why cruddy i don't know, maybe cheap inline?

Problems happening 3K and below...
If "stuff" is getting past your filters?,
may need to re-clean idle circut,

Currently have the carbs of the hot rod. Found debris in bowls which had to get past in-line filters. Will be cleaning carbs this weekend.


mro