Final Drive Transplant _ Kudos 2 Chop!

[trbig]

Just not understanding at all why you think this would be harder on first gear, or why you couldn't go full throttle? You will slip the clutch a little more at the very start, but no more (Less if anything) power will be applied to first gear or any other than with the original drive. The factory drive would be MUCH harder on first gear due to more power being applied to it versus the mod. But after you get going off the start, there won't be any difference except a little more speed in each gear (Very little)... and you will shift the same as always. This isn't something radical that is halfing your RPMs. I just don't see how you think it will be any harder on anything except a clutch?!? After you get the clutch all the way out in first... carry on as normal. Trust us!! lol.

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

Good point Tod. When I was in high school a buddy of mine had two sets of gears for his 72' Phase 3 Trans Am. One set was 4.56 ratio...the other was way tall...like 3.05 for top end.

He had some sort of quick change setup so if he wanted to drag or race top end it was really slick.

In either case I don't recall any gear failures or any extra clutch wear for that matter. It just worked...depending on what he was doing.

[pggg]

Yeah I'm guessing the internal gearbox ratios in the 750/850's are different from the eleven, 1st gear on the eleven is on the limit anyway, and can't handle the extra strain of higher gearing. I started getting lovely machine-gun type sounds coming from the gearbox under hard acceleration. NEVER had those probs with stock gearing.

[Dan Hodges]

Horsepower @ 4500 RPM

An important factor has been overlooked here,that being the fact that an 1196cc tricked out Eleven (like Maximan's) is making as much or more power at 4500 rpm as a box stock Eleven is at 5000 rpm.You can compute this mathmatically by using the torque and gear ratios from both combinations if you so choose.Secondly,if you have ever driven on the Interstates in the western portion of the U.S.(western Nebraska) and had an 18 wheeler on your behind travelling 85-90 mph you will love one of these high geared combinations.If one were building a tricked out Special for beating up on V-Rods then he would not want this 750-850 gear,but if he were building a big dresser and or touring bike for Interstate blasting the tall gear would be a should have modification.An XS Eleven can be built to fit a multitude of roles because of all the different parts that are available and this is the beauty of owning one of these classic motorcycles.From a hot rod to a baby Gold Wing that hauls,no bike does it better.

Originally posted by MAXIMAN



PGGG---->
.............<-----ME

I need some Tylenol...

[pggg]

Uh oh -this might go on forever There's more pick-up in 5th gear at 90 mph with stock gearing than there is with taller gearing, and you don't need to change down to blitz that 18 wheeler...

[pggg]

P.S. Yamaha knew a few things about designing motorbikes..

[Dan Hodges]

Gear Ratio

Altering the rear gear ratio of a motorcycle a half point, as in this case 3.3 to 2.91 is not going to hurt the transmission as Honda built a slew of CB 900 and CB 1000 Customs that had dual range secondary transmissions that altered the gear ratios more than this modification does.The 900 was spinning 4500 rpm @ 60 in low range and in high range it was only spinning about 3100 rpm @60 mph.I have owned a bunch of chain drive bikes and was constantly changing the sprokets on them to alter the gear ratios and never had a transmission or clutch problem from that but did tear up some parts by my shifting and clutching techniques.I have broken more parts than I care to remember but never from a gear change.If you were drag racing one of these things the taller gear would be harder on the clutch but it's not going to lunch the transmission as it's not that big of a change in the gear ratio.If your transmission is emitting unusual noises when under full power in 1st. gear you have transmission problems and you need to determine the source of the noise lest the noise will lead to something much more serious,like a blown/broken transmission.

[Dan Hodges]

Originally posted by pggg
Uh oh -this might go on forever There's more pick-up in 5th gear at 90 mph with stock gearing than there is with taller gearing, and you don't need to change down to blitz that 18 wheeler...

I am not talking about blitzing him,I'm talking about staying ahead of him for a hundred miles,like in cruising at 90 mph 100 mph.You need long legs to traverse I-80 going across Nebraska toward North Platte and a stock geared Eleven is spinning up some rpm to do it and the last time I did it I wished several times I had a sixth gear to stick it in because my buddies tall geared CB1000 Honda Custom was making the XS work.

[pggg]

From Dan "Altering the rear gear ratio of a motorcycle a half point, as in this case 3.3 to 2.91 is not going to hurt the transmission..." Sorry Dan, it'll wreck first gear on the eleven.

Also "If your transmission is emitting unusual noises when under full power in 1st. gear you have transmission problems..." Yep, sure do - now...

[MAXIMAN]

Ok Mr. PiGGG Head! You asked for it!

Prey tell when will all hell break loose. When will this evil befall me since you have it all figured out.

Give me an idea in mileage please.

This WAS a friendly discussion...but is deteriorating fast.

Arguing with me is one thing. You and I are peas in a pod. Hardheaded and ignorant.

BUT...To argue with sensei is not only stupid....it is futile and only shows your utter contempt for a real authority on this subject. Dan is the real GURU around here. His lack of posts are the proof. That is because he too busy at the track and the garage actually tricking out engines to spend endless hours here trolling.

I'm starting to think you (PGGG) have become a troll.

So put your money where your flapping tongue is and tell us all how many miles we have before our transmissions crash....please please tell us.... 100 miles...500 miles....1000 ?

I'm sitting on pins and needles.

If you don't think it's a good idea then DON'T DO IT. No body is forcing you. If your are trying to "save" the XS world from their own stupidity then rest assured the entire XS11 community around the planet knows what your opinion is on this subject. You've done your duty.

I do have one question. Are you just trying to start a flame war?

On second thought...don't answer the question. It will only fuel the fire.

It is sad that this post has gone from being a help thread for people that wanted to simply raise the gearing of their bike ....to a cyberspace brawl.

Peace! I'm outta here!

And Merry Christmas...even to the trolls.

PS: If any of you have any quesions about this modifications just PM me and I'll do my best to help. I won't revist this thread.

PSS: I broke my first rule of engagement on this thread: Don't argue with stupidity. It will drag you down to it's level then beat you with experience.

[pggg]

Well look, I'd better explain again My tricked out XS11 has been kicking out over 90 horses at the rear for MANY years - without a hint of gearbox problems. Only when I raised the gearing did 1st gear sh*t itself IMMEDIATELY!! (same thing huh Max?) I know what I know from 1st hand experience, end of story! As an aside, I'd be interested to know whether the 750's with the taller gearing also had re-vamped lower gearbox ratios - and if not, how many of the higher geared models have trashed first gears compared to the 'normal' models? I'm picking there's a story to tell right there. And as far as power output goes, we all know there's no comparison between the highly tuned torque monster elevens and the 750's. Time for another tylenol Max

[Dan Hodges]

850 Special gear ratio

According to the Yamaha shop manual the overall 1st. gear ratio in the 850 Special was 10.79 vs 12.07 for the XS Eleven and 5th. gear in the 850 was 4.51 vs 4.76 in the XS Eleven.The manual shows the primary reduction ratio for both models being the same.The 850 was essentially an Eleven minus one cylinder as they share the same rods,valves,springs,cam timing and the pistons are identical except for the balance.Spread the transmissions out on the floor of your garage and you will see the similarity of those parts too.When you tell me the transmission in the Eleven will fail when the final drive is altered by 1/2 point,I must ask you your basis for your conclusion and if it was based on some engineering or design principle or simply your opinion based on your particular combination.When you make the statement that something mechanical will not work properly you must base it off of some engineering principle and not off of opinion.Look at the transmission's of 750-900-1000-1100 Hondas,the 900-1000 Kawasaki Ninja's,1100-1150 Susuki's and 750-850-1100 Yamaha's and you will see that none of these companies made a major transmission change every time they increased the displacement or altered the rear end ratio.This stuff is actually quite basic as people have been changing gear ratios since before my time and that has been awhile.I have an open mind though and I will listen to the facts if they are indeed based off of facts but not off of someones personal experience with his own combination.Why was the 850 Special a low 13 second sled as opposed to the Eleven being a high 11 second runner? Do you think this gear ratio thing might have been a factor? I wonder.Just the facts please sir,thats all I'm asking.

[pggg]

Hi Dan, yeah the only fact I know is that 1st gear on my XS11 would 'pop out' under the strain of taller gearing and rattle like crazy if the power wasn't eased off. Simple aye? Now, I went back to close to stock gearing again (still slightly higher though) - and that popping out and rattling symptom is not an issue anymore unless really hammering it in first, so sadly 1st gear is no longer as solid as it was before I started playing around with taller gearing, the engagement slots obviously got rounded off.

I was as surprised as anyone, but the gearbox is obviously the XS11's major weak spot. Doesn't take much to shag it in other words Now I've been studying all the gear 'fixes' on this site, I've got all the pages and articles copied from gnpig and co. so I'm hoping I can one day beef up 1st gear to handle things better. Undercutting the slots should make all the difference. But I won't be overdoing it on taller gearing, as I found it only makes the bike lose it's 'get up and go' if you know what I mean.

P.S. thanks for being polite

[John]

Patrick, I gotta chime in here...Maximan did the mod to gain fuel economy on long rides. That is why I did it. We have different riding styles and conditions than you do. You have primarily hilly curvy terrain, and you probably like to keep your RPM's up while your climbing up a hill, or carving through a turn. You are right, a lower gear would be more suitable to you. Here in the flat lands, we aren't blessed with the tpye of terrain that you have. The roads we have to drive on are mostly flat and straight, boring as hell, and most of Max's rides are long cross country hauls where the taller gear is better suited. I don't race, or do any stop light blasting, so I don't worry about getting embarrased by another bike beating me. I know how powerful my bike is, and I don't feel a need to show it off. I have honestly gone an indicated 135mph on two occasions, and that was before the big bore, and long before the FD swap, so I would guess that 140 wouldn't be an exaggeration.

So let's all shake hands and enjoy our own riding styles and mods, and just admire each others work.

[ExcessiveBiker]

I've got a good bike in my 81SH, but I do hate to see that big motor turning faster than my 30 year old(one owner s/n 0259) XS750 at road speed. I keep looking for the next 5th gear while riding down the road.
I would like any high mileage updates on this mod from anyone who has incorporated it.
Right now, my bike feels like an automatic when in fifth gear. any where from 20mph to passing cars with the flick of the wrist, don't need to shift anymore.

thanks,
ExcessiveBiker