Nary again! (tires/balance)

[MAXIMAN]

PRO - YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE!

It's obvious you think $60 to mount a
glorified bicycle tire is a fair price. I DON'T...that's where we differ. For crying out loud I had a set of spare tires for my 1/2 ton truck mounted and computer spin balanced..Four (that's 1,2,3,4) for $65.

At least I'm not stupid enough to cry "Price gouging!" like so many in this "free" nation do. Apparently $65 per tire is what the market will bear around here. It's just not what MY market will bear.

And regarding your rant about flat spots and tires sitting on racks. Is motorcycle rubber some mysterious special compound. Auto tires don't suffer this strange affliction?

ANd last ...then on to a finer subject...it appears to me from your previous posts that you would just as soon eat a bug as mount and balance tires. If true then you should applaud my efforts of free-ing the captives to mount and balance their own tires. Saving you from the drudgery. (gee I'm such a nice guy...)

You know people I'm surprised as big as the bike industry is today no one has started a chain of tire stores for powersports. Anybody up for an IPO!

[MAXIMAN]

Re: "Anyone remember 'Ape Man', by the Kinks?"

Originally posted by prometheus578
Put your bike on the centerstand and spin the rear tire. The mass of rubber may be "balanced" to the mass of the rim, but you'll still see the center-line of the tire wander from side to side as it spins. Or jack up the bike till the tire barely touches the ground and give the wheel a spin. Watch the gap underneath the tire change as it rotates. There's your vibration. Wheel weights wont' change that.

You are speaking of a warped tire. That is called defective and the manufacture should replace it. Totally a seperate issue from mounting and balancing a good tire...NO?

You're starting to sound like the tire guys around here that blame everything under the sun EXCEPT their workmanship.

Now I don't think you really are that way... ARE YA?

[pggg]

Here's the scenario at my local bikeshop.
Me. "I'm after a new back tyre"
Sales. "OK, lets go have a look"
We wander over to the tyre rack.
Me. "F**#!! they've gone up in price since last time!"
Sales. "I know"
Me. (putting on my best horror/shock expression) "These prices MUST include fitting surely??!!"
Sales. "Aaaah...uummm"
Me. (leaning over the poor guy menacingly) "Looks like I'll have to order off the internet instead"
Sales. " You only want the one tyre done?"
Me. "Yeah man"
Sales. "Have you got just the wheel or the whole bike?"
Me. "Yeah, just the wheel."
Sales. "Cash or charge?"
Me. "Cash"
Sales. "Yep, no probs, come pick it up later when it's done"
Me. "Sweet"

It's actually only a 10 - 15 minute job, the mechanics are on hourly rate and it's just not a big deal. Of course if people drop in the whole bike, it's gotta cost them, that's only fair.

[prometheus578]

PRO - YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE

Only if it's a rubber tree, Maximan.
It's only by provoking arguements(discussion or debate are better terms), that higher thought and insight are provoked, as well.
To quote myself

I agree with what you say, Maximan

(you may have overlooked that sentence)
I shall answer your post point by point.

It's obvious you think $60 to mount a
glorified bicycle tire is a fair price. I DON'T...that's where we differ.

No... actually I think that price borders on the criminal. And after a careful re-read of my words, I've failed to find anything I had written which would lead you to that conclusion
Lemme give you a price rundown: To mount and balance 90% of what comes in...$18.50 per tire. (Those are the enjoyable ones)
Tube tires... price could go up a little, depends on the rim and the tire.
Rim Locks... extra $5. (if they don't cause a problem, then still $18.50)
Here's where the fun begins:
Rusted steel rims, or mags with aluminum corrosion that I have to clean off outside with a wire wheel in a die grinder... a coupla' bucks more.
Did the boob use a can of tire sealant that I now have to scrap offa the rim? Coupla' bucks more.
Was it that tire sealant that stays liquid and splashes all over my shirt when I pop the bead? Price depends on how mad I get.
Cheap Chinese tires where, when mounted, the tire's bead is two inches from the lip of the rim and won't take air to inflate and seal? Depends on how extreme I have to get. (there was a post months back dealing with that issue)
Still... when it's all said and done... our price never goes over $37.50 per tire.
(Not quite the ogre that I seem to be, huh?)
I stick my finger in every wheel bearing of every wheel that comes my way. I hand a shop rag to the customer and have him do it, too. If they'll pop out and press right in, no labor, just the price of the new bearings. If the bearings disintegrate and I have to grind away at hardened steel with a tungston bit to shatter the races with a chisel... better figger about $75. (Old bikes are such fun) But I'm wandering off topic.

For crying out loud I had a set of spare tires for my 1/2 ton truck mounted and computer spin balanced..Four (that's 1,2,3,4) for $65.

Tire centers, like Les Schwab, do tires all day long. That's their only purpose in life. Tires are less than 5% of what I do. Regardless of how easy it may be, it's still an interuption. ( And there's always those customers who can't understand why I can't drop my pants and sh!t for them... do their tire 'right now' while they wait, instead of allowing me to work it in between my scheduled jobs. The guy who rides in on a flat tire, I get to immediately. The guy who's been riding a bald tire for months but "demands" that it be changed right now, I show the door. "Yo Homey... I ain't yer bitch!")
(Wow... now where'd that come from? Too much Maury and Jerry Springer, I 'spose)

((Lemme go make a sandwich... it's late))

And regarding your rant about flat spots and tires sitting on racks. Is motorcycle rubber some mysterious special compound. Auto tires don't suffer this strange affliction?

Yes, they are, and yes, they do.
Motorcycle tires wear out faster that car tires. Ever wonder why? Motorcycle tires are made from various compounds, depending on the designers plan for their use. A soft compound is chosen for it's gripping characteristics, but wears quickly. Harder compounds have less grip, but wear longer. All motorcycle tires are a combination of both... but being more to one end of the spectrum or the other based upon their intended use and riding style. (The other mechanic races his Triumph on the weekends. Great grip... but he usually burns out his tires in two days.)
Many tires have a dual composite: A hard compound in the center, and a softer one at the sides. This provides a good grip in the corners(as motorcyle tires corner on their edges, whereas car tires keep the same flat contact patch) The hard compound center area provides a longer overall lifespan.
Car tires have sidewalls that can flex, whereas flexing on a bike tire would adversly affect it's handling.
Flat spots and sitting on racks, etc: Some of the guidelines when storing a bike call for it to be on the centerstand, with the front end jacked up to get the tire off the ground. Go out to the garage and look at your bike's tires. They're not perfectly round... but are flattened on the bottom. Let it sit that way for a couple of months, or years, and that tire will retain that shape for a while. I commented in a Tire Thread (not tread), months ago concerning the Triumphs the shop sells. After I uncrate it and prep it for a customer, I have to road test it. From sitting static in a crate for just a few months, the bump is noticeable when riding, and I inform the customer of such. I also inform them that, after a few hundred miles of heating and flexing, it should go back to it's original roundness. (I've never had a customer complain that their's didn't... but it just takes time.)

You are speaking of a warped tire. That is called defective and the manufacture should replace it. Totally a seperate issue from mounting and balancing a good tire...NO?

All tires have their irregularities to some degree. And yes, I have sent some back to the distributor for what I considered unacceptable handling traits. But your above statement may also seem to imply that... all tires, on all Triumphs are defective, which obviously isn't the case.
"Sure... but that's from the weight of the motorcycle... what about new tires sitting, unweighted, on a tire rack?"
Go to your nearest junkyard and check out the car tires standing along the fence (with or without rims). You'll find several that have flat spots on the bottom and the sidewalls there are bulged outwards. (Go to any redneck's house and fire up that old Camaro that's been sitting in his front yard and take it for a spin. The vibration will jar the fillings out of your teeth, though it matters little to the redneck with his one remaining tooth) Long time storage, big vibration. Shorter storage, littler vibration, but it's there, all the same.
Another point that you may wish to investigate further... the condition of your rims. If you're not the original owner of the bike, how many times did the previous owners run the front tire into curbs? Aluminum rims can get bent, too, yet they balance just fine. Wobble... but still perfectly balanced. Balancing corrects weight issues but can't fix excessive "Rim Runout"

it appears to me from your previous posts that you would just as soon eat a bug as mount and balance tires.

I fear that you may have misread my intent, or I may have been unclear. (I do tend to meander in thought)
Tires are easy work, (with some exceptions as noted above)
(None of the following pertains to you) What I resent is "I need my tire right now", and "I want it done fer free."
My time is my money(as it is with anybody else, for that matter) I do plenty of freebies... (so much so, that I have the owner breathing down my neck), but it makes customers happy and brings me repeat(paying) business. I don't tolerate customers who try to dictate my work schedule to me, nor who think that changing their tire is more important than the customer's bike that's on my lift.

you should applaud my efforts of free-ing the captives to mount and balance their own tires.

I praise any man who has the initiative and drive to tackle his own work.
I have two jobs waiting for me on Tuesday. Both of which I had given the owners detailed instructions on how to fix it themselves prior to me taking a vacation. For whatever reason... they still had to bring them in. I really can't give them preferential treatment... But I can always find ways to cut them some slack on their bills for their efforts.

...Saving you from the drudgery. (gee I'm such a nice guy...)

Now this one bothered me for a bit. A harmless barb casually slung in humor... or a thinly veiled attempt at character assassination? Your general, hostile tone I can appreciate, as no one likes to be forced to pay too much for services, but the direction in which you're presently flinging it gives me cause for concern. I'm not one to give un-asked for advice, but I often take a few steps back to reassess situations to ensure I have their meanings correct.
I can only assume, Maximan, seeing how you seem to have misinterpreted my missive from the start, that I, too, now may be reading things the wrong way.
May we both come to realize that we are in error.

[MAXIMAN]

Dude ...you're in the wrong profession. You should be writing NOVELS!

But thanks for the clarification.

[prometheus578]

"I'm published anonymously... usually on bathroom walls."

I write of what I know, not only to inform, but also to provide a chance for others to correct me if I'm wrong.
Note how I tend to stay away from posts concerning electrical and tranny related issuses, leaving those to them what have a more intimate knowledge on the subject.
You won't find any responses from me concerning '2nd Gear Fixes" as I've never done one, and as such, feel unqualified to comment on them. (I may take the time to do one this winter, and then I'll be runnin' me mouth a'plenty after that)

Glad to see that no offense was meant to be given... nor taken.

[GNEPIG]

Glad to see that no offense was meant to be given... nor taken.

.. what, no name calling?! i suppose there will be kissing and making up too!
i'm so disappointed[not really, way to be civil men]

maximan, i bought one of those balancers too[for home], should get it this week. i already have a nice tire machine at home, its called a Coats 220, cost about 650 bucks. can change auto tires also.

..i wouldnt take my tires to the bike shops either[those thievin no good dirty behastuds] how dare they try to make money offa us and WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE GREEN CREAMY FILLING ANYWAY

[MAXIMAN]

This really has little to do with money (though it is an issue) but has much more to do with getting a good balance. That is a service that has been spotty in quality for me always.

Getting a good balance at a dealership is a coin toss...and I think is directly proportional to whatever else they may have going on the day you have your tires mounted.

I think you're gonna like the static balancer. They are very simple yet very effective.

[wingnut]

A Coats 2020! I’ve got hours and hours running one of those. Back in the day when insurance regulations would let a high school kid run a tire changing machine I worked at a local Firestone dealer. Could take a car put it on the rack remove all four, replace the tires, spin balance, reinstall the wheels and hub caps,(that’s what we used to cover those ugly steel lug nuts back then for you young guys) record the serial numbers and have it back on the ground in less than 25 minutes. Never had a come back for balance problem. If a shop has the right equipment both procedures should be quick and painless. In that case you can train an ape to do it (myself as case in point). Problem is bike equipment has never been developed or deployed due to the low volume. So you have to do it yourself and get it done right or pay some one like Prom who can do it right for you. Oh and if you want to pay Mr. Prom to do it, he gets to name the price.

[prometheus578]

"OH... another guy who's trying to put words in my mouth!"

or pay some one like Prom who can do it right for you.

I never said that I can do it right... I just stated that I do it.

[DiverRay]

I guess I'm lucky, here in my area, the two local shops I've used both have the electronic spin balance machine. I did pay $225.00 the last time for front and rear tires, but after my summer trip, and Tahoe, I still have no problems.
Ray