Cam chain replacement info?

[skids]

Yeah, I am sure they make helicoils that size. You can probably get them at NAPA but they wont be cheap from them. I got some small enough for the carb screws. The caps holes and studs need an accurate job with the drilling part of the helicoil repair, but hey, your pilot hole is there! I had to replace one of my studs once, back in my "oops-too-tight" days. I stripped the top with the nut, which I am sure happened to yours also or the stud wouldn't have needed replacing in the first place.

[randy]

Yes, helicoils do come in small sizes, my brother had to do one of his cap stud holes on his GS750. When you tap for the helicoil, you may not have to drill, just go slowly and back out the tap often. Use oil on the tap threads. Also cover the cam races and be careful not to get any metal chips in there!

[Courtney]

I had this done in an hour??

I'm not really sure what all the excitement is about, this turned out to be a 2 beer job with one helper. We removed the necessities, set the cam marking to C on the timing plate, split the link. Next we put the new master in to tie the newwith the old, fished it down and around (took about 5 minutes), riveted the new master on, and buttoned it up. It really was that easy!
Court

[oldnortonrider]

One of the nuts, that I tried to loosen, on one of the cam caps--didn't want to loosen, without bringing the stud out; and later after trying to get a new stud in, -- found that the hole needed "cleaning up".

...............still.............hoping to hear from someone................(?)about "difference" in some of the different year model cams.

TopCat;--where can I get "notched" cam sprockets for this beauty? I'm in the middle of a near emergency on this thing; I ain't gonna get stuck like this again.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Carlton,

Dan Hodges posted a nice Xpose` on the differences between the 78 cams and the 81's. The 78 and 79 had a higher lift and slightly longer duration which IIRC gave it more low end grunt. The 81's are flatter since they use the larger valves, get the same/similar flow. I thought they were better for higher rpms, but I could be wrong. Try a search for Dan Hodges and cams, you should be able to find it.

As for SLOTTED Cam sprockets, again, you'll need to get with Dan on that one. I think you have to find a machine shop that'll cut the slots, and put the proper DEGREE markings on them. Although I'm not totally sure why you want to bother? I know Maximan did his, but he was looking for lower rpm grunt, not top end power, and so slotting and degreeing his worked well for him, but if you like to have power throughout the rpm range, don't know if degreeing them will help or hurt?
T.C.

PS, I found this recent thread where I found the original thread and quoted the info from Dan Hodges...good reading!

[oldnortonrider]

Where can I find this? > "........ was 2nd page of Maximan's Mega Hot Of the Dyno thread! Dan Hodges spake this........" (?)

[oldnortonrider]

Hey,..........Ken Talbot.......in your posting, where one could click onto the cam chain maintenance info> (http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63) > among Jurek Zarzycki's excellent commentary--he does say his chain had 142 pins; XS11 has 128 pins--(?)I guess he was working on a different motor..............(??)

[oldnortonrider]

I'm started on the camchain replacement; will probably "stretch"
this job out a few days. I generally get into fixin' other things,
that I hadn't really "intended" to do; I tend to get "creative" when
I've got the tank off~~camcover, etc. Lotsa stuff "accessable"

I have a question for those who
have replaced the chain, and pulled the cams to get the new chain through.
? When you put the cams back, is sprocket left loose, so you can slip sprocket
down off the bolt-down-shoulder (on both cams); OR is it bolted to the cam as
you bolt the camcaps down. I did the job 8 years ago; seemed like I remember
to have had difficulty, getting the camdots and sprocket bolt holes all lined
proper. It went easy after figuring out the sequence~~took a long time to
figure out the sequence. Dangerous to "hold" the cam with a wrench to break
loose the two sprocket bolts; undid them with cam in a vise. I also don't
see how the guys who do this without taking loose the cams,~~can get the
new chain together (sprockets still up on the shoulder?). This job invents
chain slack below both sprockets. No mercy with this new, "shorter" chain.
I do remember how I was wanting "three" hands; did it with just two. no helper.
I got my shim kit from ProCycle, Springfield, Oregon, yesterday. (See valve
shim thread). You can bet I'm feelin' good about that intake cam coming off
those three "zero clearance" intakes. When I put the new camchain in this
machine eight years ago, I recorded the clearances and the numbers on the shims. So, knew where I was headed, before everything was dis-assembled, and
maybe something to get misplaced............while I would be trying to find shims;...ordering;.....waiting. heh-heh~~goes back together easier, when it's
been less time since you took it apart.

[trapper_492001]

When Idid my cam chain last year I split the chain and tied an 1/8th" cord to one end then pulled the chain out kind of pushing the chain as I pulled slow on the rope. Same way going back on, pushing the chain to keep it off the crank and pulling slow on the rope. When I put the cams back in, with the spockets off, I hooked a lite bunge cord to the chain and up to the frame to keep the chain on the crank, made it a lot easer to get every thing in. It mite take several tries to get the dots lined up. Good luck.

Trapper

[oldnortonrider]

It's really not to my liking to crimp down the pins on the new rivet link, hooking new chain to old chain to get new chain on around~~but, there's no other way to do it (that I can think of),
unless you want to live dangerously. When you push the pin out, after one end of new chain is all way back around~~from that "attachment" link > I always felt that it had to be "wallowing
out" the hole in that new roller link that stayed with the new chain, that you were going to brad
the second hook up rivet link into the same hole~~hooking up both ends of new chain. I do use a dremel and proper stone to hone down the end of the crimped pin that I push out, before I put the rivet tool to the "push out part"; but the part of the end of the pin that yer not gonna get at is "swelled" some, and I just
can feel that "swelled" part stretching the hole of the new roller link part, that you're pushing all the way through on. That new roller link part that stays with the new chain. After that's done, you use a second NEW rivet link to hook up ends of new chain, and one of the pins is newly rivet-bradded in that same hole. I was curious, Trapper, if any of these same thoughts or "methods"
were in your use, at the time you did this?

[trapper_492001]

I did'nt use the old chain to pull the new one thru. I tied a thin rope to the end of the chain then kind of pushed the chain down from the front and pulled it up from the back. Seemed to work pretty well. that way I did'nt have to hook the new and old chain together.

[oldnortonrider]

[trbig]

You shouldn't NEED to pull the cams to install the new chain, but unless you have a good valve shim tool (I don't) it's easier to just pull the cams and get them all done at once.


Take the timing cover off your motor and roll it around with a 19mm wrench to where the "T" mark on the timing plate and the dots on the cams line up. At this point, you could loosen the cam sprocket bolts showing, but don't take them out. Roll the motor over once more to the "T" and you'll notice the dots don't line up with the cams this time. Remove the cam sprocket bolts that are exposed there. Then roll it once more to the "T" mark and now you can remove those sprocket bolts. This way it is in time when you go to install it back together.

At this point, pull the adjuster out and then slip the sprockets off the cam shoulders. This should give you enough room to install the new chain. Put the new chain on the sprockets, then up on to the shoulders. Adjust as necessary. If you install the intake cam sprocket first and make sure to pull ANY slack out that you can between it and the crank, then install the exhaust sprocket, it should be in time. I have found that if you put your finger in through the chain adjuster hole and push forward on the guide to take out the chain slack, the chain won't jump any teeth when you spin the motor to install the other sprocket bolts. You could install the adjuster first, but I like to do that last to make sure everything is where it's supposed to be before I put that on. Just make sure to never try to turn the motor backwards when doing this. You can't hold the cam chain tight like that.


Tod

[greyranch]

chain replacement

Hi,good info on replacing the chain.It sounds like my chain is a little noisy and tried adjusting it.Noise is still there.So I plan this winter on replacing it.Is this normal for a bike with 38,000 miles? Has anyone found a source for the chain guides if needed? Yamaha do not stock them anymore. Thanks for any info.Brad

[trbig]

I've honestly never heard of anyones guides wearing out. The reason nobody makes them is because no one ever needed any! lol. If for some reason you find yourself in need of one (Or more), I'm sure someone on here including andreashweiss has some to help you out.

No idea how many miles you should get on the chains. There are so many variables to make one get stretched faster than others that it would be pretty hard to say "You will get 50,000 miles per chain" type of thing. These are readily available from many different sources, so they don't last a lifetime obviously.

Tod