Cam chain replacement info?

[newmaac]

Last week I read several posts about replacing the cam chain.
The thread that I read started with a description of cutting the chain with a special tool, threading-in the new one, and splicing it back together with the same tool.
It was followed by several posts by others that had added clarification/comments of more thorough methods.

I have searched and searched, and can not find that posting.
I thought that it was in the "offline tech tips" but I am not finding it anywhere.

Anyone know what I am referring to?

TIA

[Ken Talbot]

Were you thinking of this article from the Engine Maintenance section?

[newmaac]

Ken,
"YOU THE MAN!!"
That is exactly what I was looking for.
When I posted my question, I had a funny feeling that you would most likely be the one to have my answer.

On a different note, I will take this opportunity to say "Thanks for all of your efforts to keep this site what it is".

We are all spoiled being in the XS11 group.
When I first stumbled upon ths site years ago. I remember telling my friends that it was almost like a cult. LOL
The amount of enthusiasm, archived information, and help that is is available is amazing!
A few times over the past couple years, I have gone online to find information for my buddy's CBR 900, or my son's GS650, assuming that I would find something like this site, covering THEIR bikes.
It just is not that easy!!

Those of you who are active in keeping this site up and organized are greatly appreciated, even if we forget to mention it enough.

[mro]

Hi Mike

I just happen to have a cam chain riviting tool.

Your not far from Hayward. If you want some help and can get you bike up here I'll give you a hand...


mro

[T748]

newmaac- If you need a new cam chain and masterlink, I have one new in box that I'm looking to send to a new home. Fit's XS-XJ11's. It's a D.I.D. chain and link that Parts and more sells for $34. I'm looking for $24. - Tom. dart11sec@yahoo.com.

[oldnortonrider]

I'm going to "revive" this thread, so maybe can get other, additional tidbits about doing this chain replacement. I did this job 10 years ago, on the machine that I'm still riding, regular.
Nearly every day. Unless there's snow or ice. Got to do another chain replacement on this same fine motorcycle. AGAIN!!

Where can I get new half-moon end caps>>right side, under cam cover?

..............more later................

[TopCatGr58]

PartsnMore sells them fairly cheaply, you can also get a new valve cover gasket as well. They also sell the chain and master link, so if you order enough parts, you can get free shipping!
T.C.

[oldnortonrider]

Yes;>thanks, TopCat>good to hear yer voice, after these few months. I do have the gasket; had gotten a complete gasket set from DennisKirk, about a year ago. But, I will need a chain and links. In the past, I'd gotten the chain from "A.P.E." (American Performance Engineering) in California. And recently had gotten, again, a set of exact K&N clones from them: $60.00! Same price ten years ago; same filters. They really specialize in high dollar hot rod (car) stuff; but somebody from in their higharchy has catered to the metric transverse 4's>early 80's>late 70's>when they were probably able to be made the fastest on the drag strips (then).

I've got a lotta stuff that could be added to what "Jurek Zarzycki" has about the cam chain replacement in the above Ken Talbot lead-in to that thread. What Zarzycki does say, is excellent, though. And well put. What is his user-name-handle on this forum?
The job is dangerous. I'd be willing to speculate that no other attempted job on this scooter, has provided as much "SURPRISE,
UNEXPECTED, CRISIS DOWNTIME". Ten years ago, when I studied
for about three months how to do this, "Motorcycle Consumers" magazine had 2 monthly issues>back to back>3-4 pages with pictures>how to do this. This job could use 30 pages; and of course, eventually somebody needs to put it on DVD and VCR.
I let the magazines get away; wish I still had 'em. That same magazine, about a year before the above 2 had another issue
with a 4-page article>entitled "Chain of Fools" . Does that tell ya sumthin?!! Danged if I didn't let that issue get away. One will hardly ever unnerstan' what's going on in "the cam chain world", without reading "Chain of Fools".
This fine motorcycle came to me 15 years ago one link-tooth "off",
and would run>barely. I didn't know what the problem was; more about all that later>got it to run pretty good>fair>finally; rode it for 2 years before I got it all figured out>while it "was still! off a tooth"! At that time, I was familiar with other type machines ; but persistently stuck it out with this one, cuz, at the time, I was convinced it was superior in many different areas. And in several capacities, could be made vastly improved>without a whole lotta money or brain strain.

Marlon Brando's birthday, today.

.................more later....................

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Carlton,

I'm still having fun welding stuff, thanks again for past help!

I just glanced at that article. What makes it so scary is that they are recommending NOT to remove the cams!

When I did my top end rebuild 6 years ago.....wow, has it been that long.... I of course had the cams out. With them OUT, you can spin the crank all you want, all of the valves are retracted into the head, nothing is going to hit anything! OF COURSE, due to compression you wouldn't be able to UNLESS you remove the spark plugs first! This way, you can fish the cam down around the crank, and then once you get the new out around it, you can easily check that it's on the crank sprocket by rotating the crank a bit, and feel the chain move up or down depending on which way you are turning it and which end of the chain you are looking at. Then secure the ends, ensure you have the crank at TDC, then put the cams back in,dots up, sprockets, chain, and viola....no worries!!
J.A.T.!
Good Luck anyways!

T.C.

[oldnortonrider]

"What" article are you referring to ?> to be doing this, and not
removing the cams? I don't remember that, in the articles above, having it that way. When I did this, in the past,>I tried and tried to "slip" the chain between the crankshaft sprocket and housing: no luck whatsoever--in either direction. Had to take the cams out so I could turn the crank to thread the old chain--hooked to the new chain--and not bend a valve.

The exact name of the magazine above, that I was referring to, is Motorcycle Consumers News ("MCNews.com") .

I DO NOT want to take those cams out, and put them back again>if there is a way.

Question>regarding "the cams">seems like sometime back I saw postings and discussion about some of the different year engines having a longer duration on the lobes, than maybe the '81 Special, and maybe even a higher lift. Heh-heh. Are the cams on my '79 Standard different? When I changed the camchain first time--I thought I'd hire this job done by a truly EXPERT metric motorcycle mechanic. He couldn't finish the job; when I took it over and did it all myself, I found he had crossthreaded one of the cam cap stud holes, putting the cams back. It's really hard not to do that. If you're not doing this job--extremely slowly--with absolutely no distractions>it won't come out right.

....................more on this later.......................

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by oldnortonrider
"What" article are you referring to ?> to be doing this, and not
removing the cams? I don't remember that, in the articles above, having it that way. When I did this, in the past,>I tried and tried to "slip" the chain between the crankshaft sprocket and housing: no luck whatsoever--in either direction. Had to take the cams out so I could turn the crank to thread the old chain--hooked to the new chain--and not bend a valve.

I DO NOT want to take those cams out, and put them back again>if there is a way.

Question>regarding "the cams">seems like sometime back I saw postings and discussion about some of the different year engines having a longer duration on the lobes, than maybe the '81 Special, and maybe even a higher lift. Heh-heh. Are the cams on my '79 Standard different? When I changed the camchain first time--I thought I'd hire this job done by a truly EXPERT metric motorcycle mechanic. He couldn't finish the job; when I took it over and did it all myself, I found he had crossthreaded one of the cam cap stud holes, putting the cams back. It's really hard not to do that. If you're not doing this job--extremely slowly--with absolutely no distractions>it won't come out right.

....................more on this later.......................

Hey again,

Sorry, I said I "Glanced" at it, and it was the article/tech tip that Ken posted the link to above, but I found this after step #13:

An alternative method that actually may be safer and easier (that I did not try) is to remove the cams completely (allowing the valves to retreat into their seats) and then turn the crank with a wrench to feed the chain through while maintaining tension on it. I did not do that and had problems with the chain getting stuck probably between the crank sprocket and the bearings.

Jurek Zarzycki

He says he was able to fish the chain around the crank without having to turn it, but you stated you tried this and were not able to? SO....I don't know how to tell you how to do it except to remove the cams?

I don't understand how the previous mechanic cross threaded the cam cap stud holes, when he shouldn't have been removing the cam cap studs to begin with, just the nuts and washers on top??? If you know how to use a tap, take the cross threaded one out, get the next size stud, tap a new hole, and IF needed, enlarge the hole for the matching cam cap so the stud will fit thru it.

I don't know if they (HELICOIL) make them small enough and in metric for the size of that cam cap stud?? Could be another alternative. But, you shouldn't have to remove the cam stud, just the nut, so if it's already screwed into the head albeit cross threaded, it should still be usable, UNLESS you're really meaning that he crossthreaded the upper threads with the cam cap nut whilst putting the cams back in?

Perhaps some others with some experience doing this type of cam chain replacement can chime in??
T.C.

[Czekus21]

I just changed my cam chain and was able to pull it around the crank without a problem. I broke open a link on both, the old and new chain, linked them together, used the old to pull the new. As far as master links. I didn't find any on the old or new. I picked a link and broke it open, did what I had to do, used the link that I broke out and snapped it back in place. When doing this, you'll want to make sure that you can indent the tip of the link end that protrudes out of the link side that was snapped off. That way, hopefully, the link won't come apart at 8500 rpm's. So far, I havn't had any trouble with mine. Not to many mile since I changed the chain though, Maybe around 50 miles or so.

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by Czekus21
As far as master links. I didn't find any on the old or new.

Steve, I hope it holds? You're supposed to buy the master link separately from the chain, that's how they have it listed on the PNM site! Thanks for the other info about being able to fish it around without turning the crank! Did you have to shake the chain a bit to get it to loosen away from the crank to slide it around? Did it get caught occasionally as you slid it around? I'm sure you removed the tensioner! Hope Carlton finds this helpful?
T.C.

[Czekus21]

Yes. It took a little bit of persuation to fish it around the crank. it was alot easier doing this cam chain then on my old Honda 750K. That one also had no Master link, I'm pretty sure that I was the first to be in that motor. I hope he finds this info helpfull as well. I guess the best advice I could give is to take your time, Have patience and if it starts to get to ya,,,, Walk away for awhile, till ya cool off;. It'll still be there laughin at ya the next day......

[Ken Talbot]

When I installed a new cam chain in the 'winter project' a while back, I tied the new and old chains together like has been suggested. I also used a piece of 1/8" or 3/16" dowel to poke one side of the chain down along the bottom sprocket while I pulled up on the other side. This certainly helped to slide it around, and ensure it was sitting over the sprocket so it would catch the teeth.