Update on my pinging - isn't fixed yet.

[kta]

Hey guys. This is my second thread. I brought my green bike back from the dead today. After much cleaning I verified that every single passage way in the carbs was completely cleared out.

My start button doesn't appear to work so I am starting the bike by jumping the solenoid. It fires right up with choke and seems to run fine at about 1000 to 1500 rpms, but the instant I take my jumper off the solenoid it quits. It doesn't spit or sputter, it just dies flat out.

Since I'm not firmiliar with the ignition systems on these bikes, and I don't have a wiring diagram, I was wondering if this is a possible symptom of an ignition short or electrical component somewhere that may not be getting power to keep the sparks going.

If you all feel that it most likely isn't an electrical issue than I'll dig into the carbs again.

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
- KTA

[TopCatGr58]

Hey KTA,

Which bike is this, the 79 or the 80? IF it's the 79, then check your ballast resistor for continuity. The power to the coils is bypassed in the TCI during startup, to provide more power to the coils for easier starting, but once the engine is started, and you take your finger OFF of the starter button which disengages the starter solenoid, then the power to the coils is routed thru the ballast resistor. You can do a quick check by plugging the wires that go to the resistor together unplugging them from the ballast resistor, and IF the bike keeps working after you remove the jumper, then the resistor is fried!

If it's the 80, then I'm not sure, but still sounds like electrical, but without the resistor, not sure of how or why the coils would loose power?!
T.C.

[kta]

Thanks for the reply TopCat.

The bike I'm mentioning here is the 1980 xs1100. I had read about the ballast resistor which is what lead me to create this thread. But if the 1980 models did not have them then that can't be the problem.

It's kind of a funny problem that I haven't dealt with before. The bike is running on all 4 cylinders because all the exhausts are hot but just drops dead when I let go of the solenoid. I'll run some more tests in the morning and report back.

Thanks again!

[randy]

Good call, TC.

Exactly the bad resistor symptom. The solenoid bypasses the resistor to apply full 12v to coils during cranking, that's why it runs while you have the solenoid jumped.

KTA, Could the previous owner have altered the ignition system to include the resistor? Or it is possible that some early'80 models have it? Anyone experience that?

[John]

As the proud owner of an 80 SG, I can say that it DOES havethe ballast resistor. My 81 SH does not have the resistor. The 80 has to have it as it uses the 2H7 ign module.

[skids]

ditto, on the sh. My H model had none.

Originally posted by John
As the proud owner of an 80 SG, I can say that it DOES havethe ballast resistor. My 81 SH does not have the resistor. The 80 has to have it as it uses the 2H7 ign module.

[Dennyz]

Help me understand:

You put a jumper wire on the solenoid to power up the system. You then jump the two large lugs on the solenoid to engage the starter. Right?

If this is what you are doing, it is definitly eletrical. Does your instruments light up when the key is turned on?

First check the ballast resistor. Next, I would take a look inside the throttle housing. Check the kill switch and stater button. The starter button engages the starter by grounding the solenoid. The kill button routes current to the ignition circuitry. Use an Ohm meter to check continuity from the switches to the solenoid and ignition module.

From there you are on a journey from one end of the bike to the other by way of the head light bucket. It seems like Yamaha had a bunch of extra wire they wanted to ship around the world, so they put it in the XS.

You really need to get a wiring diagram

[kta]

GOOD news and BAD news.

GOOD NEWS:
I tested the resistor and found it to be ok. And over the next hour and a half or so I was able to trace the dying problem to a faulty connection in the kill switch. I suppose it seems obvious now. So the electrical is all sorted out and the bike fires right up with the start button and continues running.

BAD NEWS:
The #1 cylinder is pinging, sounds like metal on metal and backfires through the carb a bit. I'm not an experienced engine mechanic but that seems to me like an intake valve is stuck, bent, or way out of spec. I guess the next project is taking off the valve cover and possibly the head to check it out. Humph!

Thanks for the help guys. You definitely led me in the right direction.

[Dennyz]

Before removing the vavle cover, adjust the cam timing chain. If that does not take care of it, check valve clearences:

With the vavle cover off, you can check the valve lash. Rotate the motor around (only in the direction of the arrow on the timing plate-CW), until the lobe (each) is away (180 deg.) from it's lifter and check clearence with feeler gauges. Exhaust - .021 - .025 mm (.008-.010"), Intake .016-.020mm (.006-.008").

[kta]

Update on my pinging - isn't fixed yet.

Hi guys.

My 80 xs1100 is making an awful pinging sound (definitely metal to metal) when running. I'm fairly certain it is the top of cylinder 2. It comes and goes at idle, but as soon as I give it any gas it gets LOUD.

Dennyz advised me to adjust the slack in the cam chain and adjust the valves. Both of which I have done. The valves were way out of spec, number 2 cylinder was actually the closest to spec. Bike fires right up and idles just fine.

The 2nd cylinder has low compression of about 100-110 warm where as the others were around 150. I've peered into the cylinders (through the spark hole) while turning the crank and everything seems to be moving properly. I don't here the sound when manually cracking the engine.

Could it be slop in the piston? I guess there's really only 1 way to find out. Ugh! I just want to ride!!!

Thanks for any advise guys!
- KTA

[osmosis4b]

I had this problem a few weeks ago. I did the chain adjustment a few dozen times, but it never seemed to be as quiet as before I started. Check to see if the tensioner is actually locking in place. Remove the two allen head screws without loosening the tensioner bolt. If it remains in the same place when off of the bike, the locknut is holding. Hold onto the piston and loosen the locknut. Remove the piston and look at the clamping point and shaft. Mine looked like it was clamped in a few different spots, but in good shape. I hear these things can get gouged up.

Reinstall the tensioner and tighten per procedure, then loosen the two allen head bolts about a turn and a half each, release and relock the plunger,(it should push out against the allen head bolts), then retighten the allen heads. This will push the chain a little bit more than the spring itself. Dont put too much stress on the cam bearings though. It finally got quieter.

[TopCatGr58]

Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child

Hey KTA,

Here's a quote with some nested quotes within, was a reply from our own PROMETHEUS....motorcycle mechanic extraordinaire:

Ticking valves should be easy to locate and remedy. Same fer da cam chain. Cam chains can be noisy at one rpm or another. A loose bolt holdin' a flywheel can really wake the dead. (some Kawasakis)
"I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV": Stethoscope is a good ideier. Can often be used to locate noise... 'cept when it's really internal, and often the engine case itself will transmit the vibe so that one thinks that it's coming from someplace else.
Let's assume that the valves are good, and that you've properly adjusted the cam chain tensioner, etc.
Here's what scares me.

and I think this noise developed after that. I have also changed the oil pump after shattering the original when I reasembled the tranny gears wrong.

Did it shatter when putting it all back together... or did it all go back together and was run with the oil pump not workin'? Is it working well now? (These bikes will not really clatter like an old chevy if there's not enough oil pressure)
All things being equal... and if everything else checks out... I'm sort of leaning towards Skippy's thoughts.

This noise is a knock that is real noisy when starting up and quiets a little after warm up.

A rod will do this as it waits for oil pressure to build up.

Also it is noticable when putting the gas to it and lets up when I let up on the gas

A rod will also do this as the piston gets a load on it and then eases up.
Again, assuming that everything else is good... fire the bike up and get it knocking. Pull the plug wires one at a time. If the knock is rod related... when that cylinder goes dead, there should be no load on that piston and no knock. (or at least a different sound to it)
Not being an XJ guy... I will assume that it has a centerstand. Put the bike on the center stand(REAR WHEEL OFFA THE GROUND!) Fire the bike up. (This is the part where it's nice to have a buddy hold the front brake lever in case the bike jumps and drives off by itself) With the bike running, put it in fourth or fifth gear. Place your pointed head down by the engine and slowly press down on the rear brake lever. This will put a load on the engine. If it is a rod... you should hear it start yellin' at ya.
As always.... I would be more than pleased to be wrong in my diagnosis.

T.C.

[knewsom]

I remember the thread this came off... good thread, but I think at the end I had a bunch more questions...


namely, where does one find replacement crankcase bearings if they have a true knock? (I'm asking because there's a gremlin in the back of my brain kicking me, chanting that my little tick will turn out to be this)

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Kris,

Places like BikeBandit have them:

5: PLANE BRNG,CON ROD
(U.R. BLUE) [PLANE BRNG,CON ROD] 21366-001 $12.52
5: PLANE BRNG,CON ROD
(U.R.BLACK) [PLANE BRNG,CON ROD] 21367-001 $12.52
5: PLANE BRNG,CON ROD
(U.R. BROWN) [PLANE BRNG,CON ROD] 21368-001 $12.52
5: PLANE BRNG,CON ROD
(U.R. GREEN) [PLANE BRNG,CON ROD] 21369-001 $12.52
5: PLANE BRNG,CON ROD
(U.R. YELLOW) [PLANE BRNG,CON ROD] 21370-001 $12.52

T.C.

[knewsom]

Sweeeeeeeet.

If my bike turns out to be knocking, I'll be replacing these, and probably giving her the big bore kit too - that's why I'm going to buy a spare engine and transmission - so I can just swap 'er out if it happens.