Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

XS850 Midnight on Mecum

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    XS1100 vs KZ1000 value? A comment. Not to be unpopular but I have built built and owned both of these bikes (a few of each). And I will start by saying they are both great motorcycles. The KZ1000 motor has bullet proof roller bearings, the XS11 has plain bearings. The KZ has a compact and reliable centrifugal type ignition advance, the XS11 has a huge vacuum advance unit that has issues with wires breaking over time. A cracked hose can bring it down. There is virtually no aftermarket support for this apparatus and there is no substitution. KZ1000 ignition has plentiful aftermarket support (Dyna and several others). The KZ1000 motor is famous for being used as a drag racer because of it's lighter weight and durability. It's gear driven from the crankshaft to the primary drive and clutch. The XS is chain driven with a tensioner system. Very bulky. It also has a HUGE right angle gear box for the much larger and heavier swingarm and rear drive. Lots going on there.

    It should also be mentioned that the KZ being chain drive takes conventional bearings in the rear wheel. The XS has a rear left bearing that is unusual and impossible to get if you don't know where to look. You aint buying that bearing at the Yamaha shop these days. Also, I have never seen a stock KZ1000 cam chain tensioner leak. The XS is famous for this leak and you must address it.

    The KZ transmission can be drag raced to death in it's stock form. The XS has the famous 2nd gear issue that everyone is familiar with. Also, the XS electronics are quite simply overcomplicated in comparison with the KZ. Tip over switches, self canceling signals, headlight control circuits, vacuum operated spark advance right off a 70's VW Beetle. These are opportunities for failure. This has hurt the reputation of the XS11 unfortunately.

    The KZ has none of the shortcomings the XS has. It's simple and it works. Reliable as a hammer. And the KZ certainly handles better. Yamaha wanted to impress the world with showcase electronic complication. I have a degree in electronics and all I did in my 40 year career is fix overcomplicated and unreliable electronics because the occasional engineer made something unpractical just to showcase his/her abilities. That was great until it failed in the field and it was my job to get it operational again. The Yamaha electronics are a great example of this. Want a modern example of unnecessary motorcycle electronics? I love the idiot who thought "fly by wire" throttle control was a good idea. Wait till those bikes are 40 years old and you can't get parts. The list goes on with antilock brakes etc., etc.. By buddy tried to flush the brake fluid in his modern GS BMW. It immediately set a flag in the CPU that he had to go pay the dealer to hook up a laptop and hit return to reset the flag for an hour labor $100+. They do this on purpose. More electronics on a bike is a bad thing. Believe it.

    Anyway. These are a few thoughts possibly why a KZ1000 is worth high $ and an XS1100 is worth considerably less. Personally I'm glad because you can still buy an XS11 and own them at a reasonable price. One of my favorite bikes. You just need to find this forum to figure out how to keep it running for the next generation.
    Last edited by DEEBS11; 02-22-2023, 01:36 PM.

    Comment


    • #32
      yeah I agree with the zed being stronger and more simple than the XS, my other bike is a 1980 GSX1100ET (GS1100E to you guys) and that engine is even stronger with a welded crank in the 83 motors and kicking out over 100bhp, and just as simple with basic wiring. still not worth as much as the zed though

      Comment


      • #33
        Ignition comparison.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Tonyxs11 View Post
          yeah I agree with the zed being stronger and more simple than the XS, my other bike is a 1980 GSX1100ET (GS1100E to you guys) and that engine is even stronger with a welded crank in the 83 motors and kicking out over 100bhp, and just as simple with basic wiring. still not worth as much as the zed though
          The 80 had the 4 valve head. It was now king.

          Comment


          • #35
            yeah, I love my GSX11

            Comment


            • #36
              When it comes to overcomplicating things, there's a reason I got rid of my '83 Goldwing Interstate!

              As to auction prices, it's a matter of what people think of and all too often romanticize as being "cool" Seems to me I remember the KZ being a cheap and plentiful bike back in the day, more people probably have a memory tied to the KZ than the other "Superbikes" of the era.
              1980 XS1100G

              These aren't my words, I just arrange them

              Comment


              • #37
                the big Zed's where very popular at the time and for me the best looking standard bike to come out off Japan, I built 2 off them (none standard) as to owning one now you need to rob a bank !!!!!!!
                the last one I did was a mix of Kawasaki and Suzuki bandit parts.
                I miss this bike

                Comment


                • #38
                  Tony, I love the Bandit 1200 motor in the KZ frame. That is truly bad ass. I wish you still had the passenger peg mounts for the frame. I have a nice frame for a future build but it is missing the triangular mounts for the passenger pegs. Tough to find. Also, I love the GS1100 with the upside down forks. What are they off of? P.S. some later KZ frames had a different tubular type of passenger per mount a shown in the second picture.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    thanks deebs the frame on the Zed is a Z1100 shaft drive, it had a V5 (registration document) plus they are wider at the swingarm mount so its easy to fit a wider swinger.
                    the forks on the GSX are off a GSXR1100 slingshot 1990ish

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DEEBS11 View Post
                      the XS11 has a huge vacuum advance unit that has issues with wires breaking over time. A cracked hose can bring it down. There is virtually no aftermarket support for this apparatus and there is no substitution.
                      https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/sho...ha-xs1100.html

                      I found the above some time ago. I have never found anyone running one in an XS1100 either virtual or live. I would love to learn of real world experience.

                      Marty (in Mississippi)
                      XS1100SG
                      XS650SK
                      XS650SH
                      XS650G
                      XS6502F
                      XS650E

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Interesting device. Anyone in this forum used this ignition?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by DEEBS11 View Post
                          Interesting device. Anyone in this forum used this ignition?
                          Someone must, because it has been available for a great while. I've had no luck getting feedback on it.
                          Marty (in Mississippi)
                          XS1100SG
                          XS650SK
                          XS650SH
                          XS650G
                          XS6502F
                          XS650E

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I see it has it's own microprocessor so you must use this in place of the original one. It must only need the hall effect magnetic crank sensor (it does not look optical but can't tell with picture), power and ground and the two coil outputs. I wonder how it advances the timing at the correct coordinates. Maybe it senses RPM. Pretty cool device. Not sure if it can take heat and vibration. Only time would tell. High $$$.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by DEEBS11 View Post
                              I see it has it's own microprocessor so you must use this in place of the original one. It must only need the hall effect magnetic crank sensor (it does not look optical but can't tell with picture), power and ground and the two coil outputs. I wonder how it advances the timing at the correct coordinates. Maybe it senses RPM. Pretty cool device. Not sure if it can take heat and vibration. Only time would tell. High $$$.
                              As far as I can tell, the OE ignition system, except the coils goes into the rubbish. A quick look at the installation instructions says you'll be setting up the advance yourself.

                              I've been enjoying the XS1100 for 20 years. I have bikes and parts to support my solid rider that has over 100,000 miles on it. I've been considering resurrecting another, but not if I don't think I can keep it going.
                              Last edited by jetmechmarty; 02-26-2023, 01:30 PM.
                              Marty (in Mississippi)
                              XS1100SG
                              XS650SK
                              XS650SH
                              XS650G
                              XS6502F
                              XS650E

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Lucky for us, most used parts for XS11's are still reasonable when they come up on eBay. Buy with today's dollars. I just saw a brand new standard gas tank for around $600. To compare, I saw a mint used KZ1000 MKII go for $2,500.00. I see ignition components used all the time (as an example of a long term part).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X