Bad knees?

[xs650mike]

Reading of Garp's knee replacement surgery in the "forward controls" thread is prompting me to pass my experience with arthritic knees along in hopes it will help others with this problem. I suffered for years until finally I was limping most of the time and could barely climb my front stairs. I was also experiencing stomach pain from the high doses of prescribed anti-inflammatory drugs I was taking and those drugs plus Vicodin were not relieving my pain. I read somewhere about glucosamine/chondroitin dietary supplements and decided to try it. I took 1500 mg. glucosamine and 1000 mg. chondroitin daily along with 1000 mg. of vitamin C. The package label said to expect results in about 6 weeks. After 6 weeks with no result I figured it was "snake oil" but since I still had some left I decided to keep taking it until I ran out. After 8 weeks suddenly I had no more pain. I quit taking my pain medication. Now I only experience pain if I climb the stairs several times in succession. I no longer limp. I have found that I am now able to cut my dosage of the supplement in half and still remain pain free. My doctors at VAMC are amazed at my improvement.

Since there is no regulation of the dietary supplements industry (your well-bribed congress at work) not all brands are created equal. I have found that some don't work. The brand I am taking now is Schiff Move Free which I buy at Costco. The stuff has saved me from having knee surgery and I recommend that anyone having knee pain or other arthritic symptoms give it a try before contemplating surgery. Actually I would recommend people take it before they have symptoms as a preventative measure.

[prometheus578]

(I must be tired... I can't think of a knee-related quip)

That's great, Mike. Glad you found something that works for you. After a career in the Light Infantry, I've been plagued by everything... Knee-sles, Toe-lio, Hip-ititis. (My Ex says I was also exposed to Small-cox)
All V.A. ever gives me is Vitamin M. (Motrin)
Again... nice to hear that you no longer need the pain pills. (Ummm.. seeing how you don't need them... I was wondering if...)
No... actually am pain free... but I'm sure that it will eventually catch up with me.

[xs650mike]

There is evidence that Motrin and Aleve actually speed the degeneration of the joints and they are absolutely brutal on the stomach. If you can tolerate aspirin it will probably work as well as Motrin. It worked better for me than the Motrin or Aleve they prescribed. All of those anti-inflammatory drugs including aspirin are bad when taken regularly, they should only be taken on a short term basis, say while one is healing from an injury. I'm absolutely sold on the glucosamine/chondroitin regimen. Doctor at VA said that I was probably experiencing a placebo effect. I told him the stuff is prescribed by veterinarians for arthritic dogs where it works wonders and that I didn't believe that anyone had ever demonstrated a placebo effect in animals. This was a few years ago. Now the doctors in the orthopedic dept. at VA seem much more willing to accept that it works since they are hearing about it constantly from their patients.

[JWSanders]

The UPS guy that comes to our office is a big sonnuvabish, weightlifter, etc. He has said on a couple of occations how well glucosamine/chondritin works for sore joints. Hearing it from you too makes me want to try it. Think I will get some tomorrow...my shoulder gives me hell all the time.

[DiverRay]

My left elbow has been sore the past few months. I was thinking of going to the Doc, but I'll try your pills first. I should be back in the States next Saturday, and I'll hit Coscot on Sunday.
Ray

[xs650mike]

Ray,

You should probably hit the doc's anyway and get a diagnosis, could be a pinched or inflammed nerve or something. I'm just recovering from a pinched ulnar nerve (funny bone nerve) which caused me to lose the sense of touch in my left pinky and ring fingers...couldn't play guitar for 5 months. If it's arthritis the glucosamine/chondroitin should help, probably should get some anyway to prevent future problems. You should be able to get some in Europe where it's been an accepted treatment for many years. There's a book available at health food stores called The Arthritis Cure which gives complete 411 on this stuff. Of course the first thing the book tells you is that there is no "cure" for osteo-arthritis...I guess the publisher insisted on that title to sell a lot of books. There's a lot of other stuff one can do besides the supplements to help arthritis and the book covers all of that.

[Geezer]

I started taking glucosamine 5 years ago when I read that it was proved effective in a double blind study. Chondroitin on the other hand was proved ineffective by the same group of researchers.

My knees are pretty banged up and I don't get much relief from my leg pain but glucosamine works wonders for my back. I still have a lot of pain all over but it's 2x as bad if I stop taking my glucosamine for more than a couple days.

I buy a big bottle of 1000mg glucosamine tabs at Costco and I take 2 a day. Now if I could just get some of those Canadian aspirin with codeine in them to finish the job... The US FDA has taken away from us every thing that helps relieve pain and left us with stuff that ruins our health.

Geezer

[pggg]

Bee venom

Some people 'fix' their arthritic knees with a jar of agitated bees applied occasionally, but there's bee venom tablets available too.

[Geezer]

Bee stings sounds like voodoo to me. I want to see more research on this before I would be willing to try it.

Geezer

[trbig]

Maybe it's because the bee stings are hurting so frikkin bad... you don't notice the joint hurting anymore? lol. I had an allergic reaction once to some hornets (Stung 47 times), I take bee poison, may kill me.... course then again... my knee wouldn't hurt any more!!??

Tod

[Geezer]

I remember something similar with capsasion (the stuff that makes hot peppers hot.) They had had to numb the person getting the treatment until the stuff wore off to keep the burning sensation down. Supposedly the treatment was good for a month.

For me, a small amount of codeine works without side affects so I’ll continue to go that route (that is when I can get it...)

Geezer

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by Geezer
I started taking glucosamine 5 years ago when I read that it was proved effective in a double blind study. Chondroitin on the other hand was proved ineffective by the same group of researchers.


Geezer

Chondroitin by itself won't do the job but the combination of glucosamine/chondroitin in sufficient dosage has been proven more effective than glucosamine alone in some European studies. The US is way behind the curve on this stuff. My doctor (who keeps up on the literature, at least the stateside literature) still insists that this stuff hasn't been proven. That may be so but it does work for a lot of people. It used to only be available in health food stores, now it's in every drug store, Walmart, Kmart and the buyer's clubs. Glucosamine and chondroitin are substances normally produced by the body and are necessary for the fluid that lubricates the joints. As we get older our bodies don't make enough which is why the supplements are necessary.

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by Geezer
For me, a small amount of codeine works without side affects so I’ll continue to go that route (that is when I can get it...)

Geezer

Good for you if it works. I wasn't getting relief from codeine and the stuff makes me feel stoned. It also constipates me no end. I got better results with less side effects with Vicodin but everybody's different. Many people have an allergy to codeine which is one of the reasons Vicodin was developed. Codeine pills usually have acetemenophen (Tylenol) in them and so does Vicodin. Tylenol should not be taken regularly or in high doses since it is toxic to the liver, if one is a heavy drinker one shouldn't take Tylenol at all. Even with some pretty heavy pain killers and anti-inflammatories I didn't get near the pain relief I'm getting from glucosamine/chondroitin.

[fredintoon]

'ware codeine!

Hi Mike,
codeine works no better than aspirin as a painkiller. It's main effect is paralysis of the lower bowel. Bastard doctors don't tell you this or offer options, just shoot you full of the stuff.
Talk about trying to pass a knobbly chunk of low-grade ceramic.
Ouch!
Fred Hill, S'toon.

[Geezer]

That's the funny thing about drugs, they work just a little different for everybody. I was getting great results with Celibrix but I can't afford it now and my doctor (aka the ghoul) won't write prescriptions for it any more. The bastard won’t give me any painkillers either. I need to find another doctor… I envy you folks in Canada that can buy codeine over the counter.

I'm a non-drinker but I still don't like to take any more acetemenophen than I have to.

Geezer