Counter Steering

[Wayne]

I agree. Finally took the Advanced Rider course about a month ago and we talked about this very thing.
I was pleased that I already knew much of the stuff, but its always good to refresh, makes you think about things you tend to take for granted etc. It was a great class and I highly recomend it for EVERY rider young and old.

[81XS1100-2006]

I had a buddy who I rode with all over central and western Virginia, him on a Honda F3 me on a 78 KZ650. He would kick my ass on a daily basis through the twisties. I thought he was nuts!

I finally asked if he was a nutter or if his bike really out-handled mine so well. He launched into the countersteering discussion & within a couple of weeks I was right on him though each curve.

Looking forward to working out the XS.

[randy]

To quote Kieth Code:

"Countersteering is the ONLY way to steer a motorcycle"

I recommend his video "A twist of the wrist", if you can find it. Lots of good info there on how to (and not to ) focus your attention, shifting, braking, etc. It's geared toward the track, but most of it applies to the street also.

[Dragonrider]

Wow! This one's back. Thanks for the memories guys!

Probably good timing for it too...with all the new riders due to the gas prices.

Short of it:

To turn left, push on the left handlebar.

To turn right, push on the right handlebar.

Don't believe? Don't argue. Get on your bike and try it.

Practice practice practice!

Ride on!

[trbig]

OK... well here's a question. On a long sharp curve, I had a buddy tell me that if you keep your body upright and just lean just the bike, you can turn sharper, and your bike is less likely to skid if you do happen apon a slick spot. If this were the case, why do racers get down there with their bike and drag a knee? Difference between street setups and racing setup/ tires? Or is my buddy full of doo doo... like I usually tell him. I have tried it, and it actually feels like there's less centrifigul force. Anybody have any facts or opinions?

[TopCatGr58]

Sit up, lean in, and spin out!

Hey Todd,

I think your "bud" has been drinking too many "buds"!

I had an occasional problem of scraping my pipes on a set of twisties, and Gary (66)recommended that I slide my butt over more into the turn, which would put my and therefore my bikes center of gravity further inwards of the turn, which would allow me to negotiate the turn while leaning the bike LESS, and avoiding putting the frame so close to the ground so as not to scrape parts!

Sitting UP in the turn will require you to lean your bike over MORE, putting it further on the EDGE of the tires, and if you get too close to the shoulder of the tire, it might actually grip the road less effectively. However, IF the bike were to slide and get dropped, you would be much closer to sitting on the part that's not against the ground, but I don't think it would help you handle it any better!

Okay, now for some real racers to contribute!
T.C.

[mro]

body upright and head too,

for low speed turns, like "u" turns.
Little practice and you can lock the bars on an Eleven into a slow tight circle.

At speed I go with how it feels,
unfortunately at times I could be the poster guy for what Not to do.


mro

[Dragonrider]

Originally posted by trbig
OK... well here's a question. On a long sharp curve, I had a buddy tell me that if you keep your body upright and just lean just the bike, you can turn sharper, and your bike is less likely to skid if you do happen apon a slick spot....

I think your buddy is trying to get himself, you, or somebody else killed.

It's all about center of gravity (CG). The lower the CG, the less the bike has to lean over for the same rate of turn.

Leaning the direction of the turn dramatically lowers the CG and thus the lean angle required for a same rate of turn.

Look, lean, push. Those are the tricks.

Look in the direction of turn (actually turn your head)
Lean in the direction of turn.
Push on the handlebar (on the side of the direction of turn)

The AMA says that the #1 factor that makes the difference in WHO gets in a MC accident is formal training.

You cut your chances of being in an accident by over 75% by just taking (and learning and practicing) the Advanced rider's course.

Turning and braking are the reasons. They teach both correctly.

[Wayne]

Originally posted by trbig
OK...I had a buddy tell me that if you keep your body upright and just lean just the bike, you can turn sharper, and your bike is less likely to skid if you do happen apon a slick spot.

Tell your buddy to take a class, read a book, something, before he kills himself!!!

The only case where you want to stay upright, or maybe ever scoot opposite the turn is in very slow U turns (your not leaning when doing these anyway). Otherwise stay at the same angle as your bike.
You do want to keep your HEAD upright, which gives you much better turning vision and turning ability.

I find it hard to believe with the gyroscopic forces in an at speed curve the he is even able to stay upright.

Take the MSF courses. http://www.msf-usa.org/

[trbig]

Tell your buddy to take a class, read a book, something, before he kills himself!!!

I think your buddy is trying to get himself, you, or somebody else killed.

No... really guys... don't hold back. Tell me what you REALLY think... lmao.

OK I get the general consensus here. I agree with you guys. Like I said, I have to tell him he's full of crap on a pretty regular basis. Sorry to get us off the subject.

Tod

[Dragonrider]

Originally posted by trbig

No... really guys... don't hold back. Tell me what you REALLY think... lmao.
Tod

Heh heh....well, were not really an opinionated bunch are we?

[Pat Kelly]

Are we talking Standard leaning or Special leaning?

[50gary]

If you want to prove it just get out your bicycle and ride that. It's safer and the bicycle is so light it reacts instantly. I ride a race bicycle 4000 miles each summer and also have done short track speed skating (single track vehicle) for 30 years they all steer the same. It's all the same, single track vehicles. Everyone "countersteers" whether they realise it or not, whether they call it "countersteering" or not. I (for explaination purposes only) describe it as pushing the bike downward, the steering head is a hinge in the middle of the bike, if you push on the left bar the left side of the bike goes downward the bike is then on the left side wall of the tire and it's a much smaller radius viola, you turn in that direction.
Cheers, 50gary

[trbig]

Are we talking Standard leaning or Special leaning?

I, personally, was talking about MAXIM leaning! Of course, I am definately the minority. Speaking of minority... can I get anything free because I am!?!? lol.

Tod