wiseco 1196 kit - again - what to do????

[beechfront]

was thinking about a big bore kit and have been reading through all the old posts about it.

the engine i have in mind has 37,000 miles on it. if i were to do the big bore kit - am i looking at an engine that will have plenty of life in it or would i really need to rework the whole engine (bearings, etc)???

and does ANYBODY have any idea how much power is gained? i could not find any good info other than "there was a noticeable difference"


would really like to fix this bike up... but at $400 for the kit, $180 to get the cylinders bored, and another $160 for valve work..... i still have a 25 year old bike. maybe i should put that $750 plus repainting $$ plus new coils $$ plus new brake lines $$$ plus trade-in $$ towards a used bandit or maybe a v-max?



i wish i weren't so indecisive.

[MartyA]

Personally, if there is no need to rebuild the engine I wouldn't. I think putting anything other than maintenance / upkeep stuff in an XS is a waste. I have put lots of replacement stuff on mine over the years - tires, shocks, seat repair, oil and filter, fork seals, batteries, etc., but I probably won't be buying replacement coils, Wiseco kits, or anything like that. If the engine goes, it goes. I might attempt a repair using some of my parts stuff, but I won't send it out for any sort of rebuild.

The bike is plenty fast, runs well, handles well, is sometimes a conversation piece in a group. But, it is 27 years old, and it is not a collector's item. I could buy a Bandit or an FZ-1 and get a faster, better handling bike. Both are comfortable, and I have the FZ-1 at the top of my list, it likely is the next bike I buy.

For now, though, the XS runs very well, is thoroughly enjoyable one up or two up, and I have no need to get rid of it. I will continue to maintain it, oil and filter changes every 1,500 miles, other lubes, tires, etc. But I don't think I will spend $500 or more for anything optional on it, or anything that needs repaired.

When the time comes, it is either running and I sell it that way or it is not running and I part it out.

[John]

If you are determined to do this, then I would recommend the smaller of the big bore kits. I went with the 1179 cc kit. One big factor is engine heat. The more steel cylinder liner that is removed, the hotter it will run. I would recommend an oil cooler, new clutches, and having the trans gears uundercut while you have it apart. As far as bearings go, inspect them, and plasti-gauge them. Then you will need to re-jet the carbs, and go with a free-er flowing exhaust system, and air filter. You'll need a new, complete engine gasket set, and a new cam chain, while your in there. I spent over $900 on mine. I found a gasket set for $66 and the cam chain was $33. I did my own valve work. As far as power gain, I would guess 10-15 hp?

[Dennyz]

You need to step back and evaluate what you want in a bike. We all have different expectation and desires. No one is going to be able to answer your question for you.

For many the XS is a cheap thrill that launched them into big power bikes. They have since, moved on to more modern rides. Many still have their XS sitting in a corner of the garage. They don’t ride them anymore, but can’t sell them either.

To others, the XS is a sound reliable cycle that has strong vintage lines and character. Why pay big $$ to get bugs in your face and wind in your hair, when a well maintained XS does it so well.

To some, like myself, it is an inexpensive platform to customize, enough power to be fun, and lots of cool stuff to figure out how to retro-fit. Like taking a '50s Chevy and turning into a hotrod. I go into the local Yamaha shop and they look at me like I am some kind of nut, but they all come out to look at it. I tell them that when my XS wears out, I will by a new bike. Deep down, I think the really understand.

The XS is old, low tech, ill mannered in many respects, and not respected by most everyone else. For me, there seems to be some kind of magic imbedded in it. I have tried to move on to other bikes, but keep coming back to my old horse. I guess I just don't need anything more. I think it is the motor. It is so reliable and adequately strong, I just can’t walk away from it. Every time I have asked my XS to go somewhere, it just does it and we both seem to have a lot of fun doing it.

If you are going to put money into it, do it because it is your passion, don't try to make it into something it can never be. You will spend a bunch of buck and never be satisfied.

FYI: At one time I considered the V-Max as a replacement for my XS, until I rode one. It seems to have most of the XS's bad habits, yet went like hell. I stayed with my XS.

[chevy45412001]

stick little one

as stated above,if motor is running good i'too would leave it alone.But if you must stay with the 1179 kit. Just for the plain fact that 1196 is the biggest and heaven forbid if something bad was to happen you then would be looking for a different motor.Insteed of the next big bore kit.I'm waitng too for the big bore but will wait til the bike is not fixable then 1179 after i go through that one then 1196,so if all goes well i will still have a rideable bike long after i can't even ride it anymore.Just what i'd do

[beechfront]

over the last 2 years and 20,000 milles i have become quite attached to my bike. i don't ever see myself getting rid of it (if i were to trade anything in it would be its recently acquired twin brother).

I also told myself before I left that if it got me to alaska and back I would really fix it up - and that is what i plan to do. I am just trying to figure out how much or if i would benefit from the big bore.

i am well aware that as a 25 year old bike it has its limitations. I just want it to be the best XS1100 it can be



after i finish with other modifications I am wanting to make - it will no longer be comfortable nor practical for long trips. New exhaust will be in the way of saddlebags, will only have one set of footpegs instead of three so inability to shift my weight around will be a huge issue. which is the reason i bought this 'new' low mileage bike. my plan is for it to become my new road trip bike.

[John]

If you plan on making it a stop light assassin, then do the big bore. There's quite a rush when you twist the snot out of it, and the front wheel lifts! Mine is still more of a road bike, but I still like to play once in a while.

[beechfront]

so you saw a big improvement?

did you do the 1179 or 1196?

[John]

I did the 1179 cc kit. Cost me $350 for kit, and $140 for machining. It was big improvement over what I had for an engine at the time. I was running an XJ engine for many years, and I put a hurt on it by missing a 3-4 shift at 85 mph. Instead of tearing it down for troubleshooting and repair, I figured I'd 'Freshen up' the original engine. I kinda babyed it for the first 500 miles, but now I'm not so easy with it. I don't beat it by any means, but it still has a lot of 'play' left in it.

[sixtysix]

My bike had 90K miles on it before I even thought of a Big bore kit......37K should not need one. You will have plenty of life left in the engine.

BUT I would buy a good used 97-01 Bandit 1200 for $2000-$3000, and not look back. (Oh that's what I did..... )

Should I follow my head or my heart....nobody knows but you.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Beechfront,

I did the 1179 kit because of my stupidity and ignorance at the time when I parked it in '92 due to bad 1st/2nd gear, got badly rusted in the cylinders, estimated 50k miles(odometer broke at 995). It definitely has more power than it did stock, but not night and day difference! I would agree that as long as your compression is good, don't tear it down, just fix everything else you want to fix!

However, if you do tear it down, you may not need to crack the lower cases to do it!? I can see John cringing now! I put the new pistons on without redoing my bearings, I did my valves myself, and kept the original cam chain since I didn't split the cases. It's been running 4 years now, have several thousand miles on it....not too many really cause I don't use it as a daily ride, just weekend fun and rallies, and trying to keep the mileage wear on the engine down, so not putting excessive boring highway miles on it!! No oil cooler, it can get hot in severe summer stop and go traffic, I try to avoid that!

After break-in, I have hit it quite hard quite often, as folks at the rallies can attest to, run it in mid 5-7 krpm's most of the time when running the twisties....I hate using the brakes, just use engine compression/braking I have no qualms taking it to 8.5K/redline, and have done it many times without any ill affects.
I do plan on getting it to a DYNO some day and also to the race track to test its and my 1/8 or 1/4 mile performance abilities and skills!

[beechfront]

well after tonight my plans have changed some...

the new bike has got some tranny problems - keeps wanting to skip in 1st gear under heavy acceleration.


my current bike with 37k is still very, very strong. tranny is solid too. so per the advice of people here i am going with "if it ain't broke don't fix it". once i get the clutch/brake problems straightened out it will be 100%. am going to fix it up cosmetically too - decided i want to keep this one as close to stock as possible. factory exhaust on the new bike seems to be in good shape so i got lucky there. seat is perfect (stock look) as well.


I still want to fix up the new bike and get it running good but is just going to take more time than I had thought. the new bike is now going to be for 'experimenting". if anything gets the big bore kit it will be this one, and only if needed.


it's good to have options.


thanks everyone for the words of wisdom.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Beechfront,

I've done the 1st and 2nd gear fix on 2 bikes each over a weekend, course it helped to have experience with my own XS before tackling the XJ's! Per the tech tips, you don't have to split the cases at all to fix it! Just get some help flipping it over on it's back!

And getting experience with this tranny will help you WHEN/not IF your rock steady one starts to act up!
T.C.

[beechfront]

well at about 20,000 i put new 2/5 gears in "rock solid" - so i have an idea what to expect.


i made another post - but is the first gear fix the same as the 2nd only with different gears?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Beech,

I replied to your other post before I saw this one, answered it there!
T.C.