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**mack** · 05-10-2016, 09:59 PM

Wow

I couldn't figure out why my computer just wouldn't start, I had to take it in and have the hard drive wiped clean and the OS reinstalled. I haven't upgraded to 10 yet but plan to.

**ViperRon** · 05-11-2016, 07:00 AM

Sorry it got you Mack I tried to warn people but did not even have a bite. If you read the article you find it was a really dirty underhanded way of forcing people off windows 7 and I am sure there are more on the way. This is Microsoft and they learnt a large lesson in 8 and we are now going to pay for it for a while. I am sure they have a plan to implement something with 10 that will cost us threw the nose in the future.

**CatatonicBug** · 05-11-2016, 12:07 PM

The thing is, no OS will last forever. Technology improves, and things change. Eventually, if you want to keep using a Microsoft OS, you MUST upgrade to Win10. There is no sense in getting upset about it or about the methods that are being implemented to nudge people in that direction. The problem is that people don't like change, but technology is nothing without change. Just take advantage of the free upgrade before July 29th, and get on board. Stop fearmongering about what MS "might" do in the future with pricing or other things. If you don't want to use Windows, learn CentOS or Mint, or any one of the other free OS's out there, and use those instead.

MS wants to make sure that we don't get stuck with another WinXP EOL issue, where half the population never bothered to upgrade. Computers should be replaced about every 5-8 years anyway - that is how the industry is designed. Get used to it, and plan for the inevitability.

**aquamantx** · 05-11-2016, 01:34 PM

I think the complaint is more that you have a working albeit outdated computer until they do their update. I would compare it to having a working bike until they updated your cdi then tell you to buy a new bike or cdi system. It was working. Thier update made it stop so you would purchase a new product. If they let it run but did not support it any more that would be different.

**CatatonicBug** · 05-11-2016, 01:41 PM

Comparing the PC industry to the automotive industry is never a good idea. Cars run until you can no longer fix them. PC's are not meant to do that. They are constantly being updated/upgraded, and the technology they must use to communicate with other computers changes too. You MUST update regularly, and be ready to do so. We were warned about Win10 for the last 3 years. I think that's plenty of time to prepare.

**ViperRon** · 05-12-2016, 07:29 PM

Here is the issue, What is it that Windows 10 does that XP could not ? Now what 10 does that XP could not is offer an opportunity to look at everything you do and you can not seal the hole.
It is not invulnerable to Viruses in fact it offers holes where you can not recover the OS you must re install. It will save your files but your old programs from an update are gone all of them.

Now this latest update had no absolutely no benefit offered to a windows 7 user it only exploited an issue with Bios that ended use of the system.

I will apply it to your dirty sneakers. You are walking down the street and the police decide you need new ones. So they take them off destroy them and now you are barefoot. Yea tennis shoes are not for ever but should the police decide when you buy new ones.

I am going to clue you in on what's coming !!!!
One day you are going along and you get a message that you have exceeded your use of music on some free download and please pay to continue and you must pay to continue using the computer for anything. You are going to find that you pull that credit card so frequently to get nickeled and dimed you won't open the computer without your card. Or maybe you use that fantastic new auto-pay tool option they add.

**mack** · 05-13-2016, 03:30 AM

Under handed

I agree with Ron, I think it was a dirty underhanded thing to do. If they would have sent me a message telling me that I would have 90 days to upgrade to Win 10 for free or they were going to crash my system that would be different completely. I would have been made aware and had a choice. But to do it in the fashion they did, completely unacceptable. It cost me money and put my kids in a position where they had no home computer to do their homework on for a week.

**CatatonicBug** · 05-13-2016, 09:06 AM

None of this is "dirty" or "underhanded". MS is NOT in the business of removing your access to computers! Quite the contrary, they are doing everything they possibly can to make sure that your computer keeps working flawlessly. Unfortunately, because of the open nature of PCs (the reason PC is more popular and cheaper then Apple), there are times when an update that fixes one problem does interfere with the operation of some third-party hardware or software. No one is FORCING you to switch to Windows 10. In fact, no one is forcing you to use Windows at all! There are several alternatives, and MS is perfectly aware of that.

I'll work with the "Shoes" comparison - however, you have the comparison all wrong. I'll make it a little more realistic:

Ten years ago, you went shopping for shoes, and found that Nike made a shoe that you and all your friends thought was the "best" shoe available. You each bought a pair. Nike has provided free shoelaces as needed, and over the last ten years, these have become the most comfortable shoes you've ever owned! However, in that time, it has been discovered that the rubber used to make these shoes can melt when walking on certain types of floors! Nike has put tons of time and money into researching a fix for this problem, and 3 years ago, came out with a new style of shoe they thought everyone would like just as much as the ones you bought. Unfortunately, they didn't talk to the focus groups enough, and the styling just bombed in the shoe stores... Everyone hated them because of the fit, and the styling was just not popular at all. Even though Nike tried to offer a new pair of shoelaces to try and sweeten the deal, no one liked the new shoes.

So, in an attempt to keep their loyal customer base, Nike created a whole new shoe, similar to the first style, but containing the new rubber that doesn't melt. They added features like personalized colors and even GPS navigation to sweeten the deal. Then, on top of that, they said that if you want to get these new shoes, you can trade up FOR FREE, as long as you do so within one year of the new style's release. In fact, if you want them to, they will bring a pair to your front door and trade them right there! All you have to do is put them on. Nike has offered free shoelaces for the life of the shoes as well. Yes, these shoes will eventually wear out, but they hope that because they made the trade-up so easy this time, maybe the next time you need new shoes, you might not remember the marketing blunder they made with the previous shoe and you'll be willing to buy the next one they come out with instead of looking to one of their competitors.

Again, no one is FORCING you to use Windows 10. MS is simply making it super easy and FREE to trade up to the newest OS (with tons of new features, some of which are so ahead of their time that the hardware to utilize it has not yet become mainstream) without the need to buy a new PC. Yes, they are going to stop updating the old OS eventually, but that has always been the case, and is the case in almost every industry I can think of. Also, there are going to be glitches in the compatibility with third-party hardware and software that need to be ironed out. You always have the option of not updating, but then you will be left with an old pair of shoes, with fraying shoelaces and soles that might melt on certain floors.

**ViperRon** · 05-13-2016, 09:46 AM

Ok do not want to argue semantics. Just tell me what did the update for Windows 7 fix? I can be fair, now each update is system specific so for Windows 7 users, what problem was fixed? Us poor confused souls really want to know.

**CatatonicBug** · 05-13-2016, 10:00 AM

Here's the link to the description of what that update does. Every update has a page like this, describing the reason for it's existence. Just search the KB (knowledge Base) number associated with that update to find it.

Basically, this update fixes a problem that prevents Bitlocker from encrypting (protecting) your data if certain scenarios exist for your computer.

**TopCatGr58** · 05-13-2016, 06:47 PM

It's Funny

Here I was sitting on my couch with my old VISTA laptop viewing this thread when BLAM,
it BLUE SCREENS/BSOD!!!

It likes to do that every few days or so after it's been left running and repeatedly closed/put in standby/sleep, and then reawakened. Just goes to show how UNSTABLE the earlier OS's were/ARE.

I have my Desktop system that I built in 2010-12 IIRC and first installed XP on it, up to SP3. Then a couple of years ago I finally got WINDOWs 7 Pro 64bit and put on it along with upgrading the processor with a nifty hack I found to be able to use a SERVER grade quad core CPU in a dual core socket! I leave my computer ON all the time so I had instant access to it when I want to use it for whatever. I know I'm burning up my Mobo Caps that way, but the hard drives do spin down, and the screen goes black, but it never is allowed to go to sleep/standby. I love how stable the OS is, only have to reboot when I have to upgrade my antivirus program that requires a reboot.

Last year when Win 10 first came out, I had/have another laptop that was running Win7, thought it was new enough, and MS said that the laptop could upgrade to Win10, that it was COMPATIBLE....so I did the upgrade. But I don't use that newer laptop very much, still use THIS old VISTA one that I keep at the couch, it was a FREEBIE from coworker that had crushed the screen, I replace/repaired it, and was given it as a gift, it's a LENOVO, decent machine that does the basic web work I need while I'm watching TV.
Anyways, I took the new Win10 laptop with me on a cruise with SWMBO, tried to watch some of the new videos I shot with my GoPro, and it was horrible, jittered, etc.! I also couldn't play a video game for the same reason, video just wouldn't work right!!!

Got back home, checked on trying to update the video driver and that was when I learned that the card was too old and not supported by either HP, or the Graphics Card manufacturer, so NO Win10 driver was available/possible! YET, MS told me that the computer was FULLY COMPATIBLE to install/upgrade to Win10! BULL CHIT ! ! Yes, I can still SEE the screen/desktop to use basic computer function, but try to do anything that requires a little speed/stress on the video card ie watching a simple DVD movie or even an MP4, even a FLASH video on line and it would crap out/glitch/jitter, etc.!!!

It had been over 30 days since I had performed the upgrade so I couldn't just UNINSTALL Win10 and rollback to Win7. I had made the HP recovery discs, but tried to do that, and it wouldn't work....not sure why, but could have been because to repair that computer, I had to replace the Mobo, and so the mobo/cpu hash probably didn't match with the OEM type discs/recovery program??? SO...I did a CLEAN install of WIn7 and used the same Registration Key, and it worked, so I was able to get my Win7 back along with the FULL ADVANCED functionality of my video card!

SO....even though I can appreciate Bug's metaphor, I, too, believe that MS isn't so altruistic, and is misrepresenting their analysis of any particular computer that it says is ready for Win10 when they clearly do NOT test the VIDEO card system, or inform that although the rest of the system (CPU/RAM/HardDrive etc.) meets the performance criteria of Win10, they do blatantly IGNORE the Video Cards in an effort to get as many folks to install Win10 as they can KNOWING that many of the OLDER systems that they say are approved for the upgrade will NOT have proper advanced VIDEO functionality because there are NO Win10 Vid. Card Drivers for that older system!!

With this knowledge, I was hesitant to perform the upgrade on my desktop, and after learning about the Vid. Card snafu, I researched and found that my manufacturer will NOT be providing a Win10 driver for my older card. SO....if I want to get Win10, I'll be needing to upgrade my Vid Card to a newer model that has a Win10 driver!!

Okay, just wanted to share this experience with the folks here on Channel 11, don't just take MS's word that your computer IS compatible with Win10, check with the manufacturer regarding the Vid. Card and if you will be able to have a Win10 driver BEFORE you do the upgrade....this is more critical for Laptops since it's more difficult to upgrade their vid cards....some are part of the Mobo's vs. desktops that can swap out PCI-E vid cards.

T.C.

**ViperRon** · 05-14-2016, 08:41 AM

Yea

if you have the top end windows and you deploy data encryption that is a good recommended system update for all users. Usually those things are patch fixes for specific programs or features

However they knew it would lock a computer with Asus bios and standard default settings

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