An electrical experiment!

[fredintoon]

Fred, it's all about cost and power. The higher voltage tools have more power, but both the tool and the batteries cost more, sometimes significantly more. Then you get into the thing that most are still NiCad, but some use NiMH and some of the high tech ones are using LiFE batteries, all at different price points and power storage capacities. Then there are the ones with a cord, which don't ever run down or need the batteries replaced, but need a plug to plug them in to.

Hi Cy,
betcha the reason that same Voltage battery packs from different makers don't interchange is totally to lock you into staying with that brand.
And portables need a power source to plug their chargers in, eh?
As does the compressor that powers up one's air tools.

[crazy steve]

I've given up on cordless tools, as it seems every time I go to use them the batteries are dead. And worse yet, they've failed and won't take a charge. Granted, I don't use them enough in my home shop to keep them adequately 'cycled' (preferring the more powerful corded tools), but still...

Cordless works great if you use them often enough; that was nearly all I used at work up until I retired.

[planedick]

Doubtful

I have tried to do some soldering with the tool TC is talking about. It works fine if the part being soldered is a fine wire, like 22 AWG, but those tabs on the cells will be too large and absorb too much heat to work well. You really need to have a good solder joint between cells or it will fail. Using tabs to solder them together works well without damage to the cells as that is what they are for. The tab will not transmit much heat to the cell even if you use a hot iron. Just keep it away from the cell end.

[motoman]

Not true Steve........but gotta turn loose of a few bucks to get a good one.....that will last. My choice for home use afer retiring as far as a drill was a Milwawkee 18.5V, 1/2"chuck, two batteries and storage box.......and your not gonna get that at Home Depot or similar store......just a Milwawkee dealer/distributor. It WILL twist your rist if not paying attention and batteries will NOT be dead after leaving in the box and not using for a year. The almost $250 cost beats the heck out of dead batteries every time you go to use one......like many, been there,done that.......just one too many times in this case.....that was some 6yrs. ago, and it and batteries still function as they should.

[natemoen]

I do agree with motoman that the tools you get at box stores and even small hardware stores are crap. They are lower quality cheap consumer grade tools where quality and longevity was traded for cost. If you want quality tools you should by from professional supply stores that supply professional quality tools. A bit more expensive in the beginning but not having to replace them as often or ever will pay the difference.

[crazy steve]

Not true Steve........but gotta turn loose of a few bucks to get a good one.....that will last. My choice for home use afer retiring as far as a drill was a Milwawkee 18.5V, 1/2"chuck, two batteries and storage box...

I know what good tools are... every one of my corded tools are Milwaukee with the exception of one Makita grinder, a worm-drive Skil, and a couple of throw-away HF grinders. I've got two Milwaukee grinders, but both are currently dead from failed switches. The switches last about the same as the HF grinders, but the HF grinders cost about 2/3 or less of what the replacement switches cost and I don't need to drive as far to get them... go figure. But generally speaking, if you want a first-class corded tool, buy Milwaukee. The only ones I ever saw that were better was Thor, but they priced themselves out of the market (all metal, all ball-bearing construction; those were bulletproof...).

As far as cordless, I've used and abused them all; Milwaukee, Makita, B&D, DeWalt, Ryobi, and even some off-brands when an owner thought he'd save a few bucks (not). The shops I worked for as an electrician had all made the switch to cordless about 15 years ago. I know the Milwaukee cordless I've used in the past were POS; I was very disappointed. Maybe they've improved them, but the ones I used weren't anywhere close to their corded tools in terms of quality/longevity. The old Makitas were very good, the newer ones not quite as good. B&D is crap, as is Ryobi; those didn't last any time at all. The DeWalts weren't too bad, basically being a 'better' version of the B&D. The DeWalt was the cordless tool choice of most of the contractors I worked for as they seemed to be the best 'bang for the buck' in terms of cost/longevity, with Makita running a close second. I tried one of each (both bought from a wholesale distributor by the way), but both failed from lack of use. I will admit that I very rarely used them; I almost always use air tools, so those would sit for a year or more between uses. We sometimes had the same problem in the shops; the cordless tools had to be 'rotated' if not all of them were in use or the batteries would go bad, although the older Makitas were much less prone to this compared to the other brands for some reason.

Every once in a great while I think about getting another one (usually when I'm stringing out my extension cord), but I get over it....

[TopCatGr58]

I know what good tools are... every one of my corded tools are Milwaukee with the exception of one Makita grinder, a worm-drive Skil, and a couple of throw-away HF grinders. I've got two Milwaukee grinders, but both are currently dead from failed switches. The switches last about the same as the HF grinders, but the HF grinders cost about 2/3 or less of what the replacement switches cost and I don't need to drive as far to get them... go figure.

Hey Steve,

Shows you what kind of cheapskate I am, I actually fixed one of my HF grinder's switches! Just found a decent grade rocker switch with the right volt/amp rating, and wired it in, used zip ties to secure it in place where I could throw the switch.

I don't see why you would necessarily need to get the OEM switch from Milwaukee, just one that would fit into the slot when you remove the OEM switch, matches the amp rating, and be able to secure it in position so you can actually throw it!? But then again, I'm a cheap bastard at times...would rather spend several hours fixing something than a few more bucks to replace it!

T.C.

[crazy steve]

I thought of that TC, but the grinder is designed in such a way as to require serious mods to the shell to do anything else. The switch is way inside the housing by the motor brushes and is actuated by a plastic 'paddle'. I should look around online for replacements; the semi-local repair shop wanted $27 each for them last time I checked... maybe I can do better.

[motoman]

Every once in a great while I think about getting another one (usually when I'm stringing out my extension cord), but I get over it.... ///////
Now that was funny Steve, had to laugh........just reminded me of the same scenario, cept I finially could'nt get over it, and got tired of always finding the B&D dead. Finially buried (trash) it the same day the Milwawkee came home.......was a birthday present to myself.

[crazy steve]

Don't get the idea I don't like cordless tools; one of the greatest inventions ever IMO was the cordless sawzall...

I haven't looked at the market in probably 4-5 years, so I don't know what's out there any more. To be honest, the most reliable, bulletproof cordless drills I ever used were the old 7.2V Makita drills. Not a ton of power (pretty much worthless if you were using anything bigger than a 3/8 drill bit), but for driving screws they couldn't be beat for their light weight and reliability. I saw more than a few of these last for ten years. But the market went crazy for power with ever-larger batteries, and the bigger, heavy models were fatiguing to use on a daily basis. Makita redesigned/cheapened the 7.2 drill when the bigger units came out, and it was never the same.

I know that when Milwaukee first entered the cordless market, they did it with re-branded Makita units (basically red plastic instead of blue-green). Milwaukee does this more than you think; they do build their 'signature' tools, like the corded drills, porta-bands, sawzalls, grinders, but many of the other tools they sell are made by other people. My 'Milwaukee' chop saw is almost identical to a Makita unit (and made in Japan).

DeWalt is who screwed up the cordless market; they came on the scene with a decent product with a really significant price advantage over the 'better' offerings from others. Makita owned the cordless market nearly from the beginning and made an excellent product, but they cheapened their stuff to compete and got a poor reputation for a while. And the DeWalts weren't bad; they'd last about 1-2 years in daily heavy use, and it was cheaper to replace them rather than repair. The typical failure on all of these was the clutch, but it could cost you nearly the price of a DeWalt to repair the 'better' brands. It didn't take the contractors (or the manufacturers) long to figure this out, so you ended up with a 'all the same' market with not really a lot of differences between the products.

[TopCatGr58]

Update: Done!!

Hey Folks,

Okay, finally received the 4/5ths Sub-C sized NiCad batteries for the B&D 14.4V battery pack, so here's the photos and documentation!

Old Pack, case already removed, showing the 2 connection prongs in plastic holder, then loose:



Next, insulating cardboard removed and top and bottoms marked (+) and (-) on top and bottom.



Next, new replacement batteries with tabs...came with piece of shrink wrap on tab ends, next shows removed, and tabs folded many directions to be able to make connections at different angles!




Next, NEW PACK of batteries assembled, taped and tabs aligned for soldering!




Next, the pack showing solder joints done, and power contacts secured.
The tabs really kept the heat away from the actual cells, used a decent little ?15watt pointed tip solder gun, just a few seconds to make the solder pools between the 2 tabs positioned slightly askew/sideways.




Next, new pack with insulation and connection prong holder in position.



Next, pack fully reassembled.


And then after just 5 minutes of charging, voltage showing 15+V, and tested on the Drill...it worked!! My charger isn't a smart one, so I won't leave it on there overnight, but will plug it in tomorrow for a 4 hour cycle to prevent overcharging & overheating them!


The Ebay Seller for this style was "minicanj" with only 829 feedback, but they seem to be good! 4/5ths Sub-C with solder tabs ~23mm x 35mm size, 1.2V 1600 Mah, got 12 for $17.50 free shipping!

The other batteries I ordered were for the Ryobi, from "greenforcecells",
Full Sub-C size, 2500 mAh, with solder tabs, 6 for ~$10.00 Free Shipping!
They haven't arrived yet, will report their performance when I get them installed.

Okay, hope this helps some of you guys to rescue your dead battery packs!

T.C.

[xs11jack]

Just a quick note here: if you find you don't pay enough attention to the amount of time your battery is on the charger, get yourself one of those plug in timers and plug your charger in to that. Set the timer for the recommended time. It shuts off with out overheating the battery and you don't have to keep an eye on it.
Ole Jack

[TopCatGr58]

Ps.

If you have the B&D 14.4V pack, you may be able to put in HIGHER capacity larger regular Sub-C size batteries, not just the smaller 4/5ths Sub-C size!

I didn't notice until I was putting the pack back together, and the bottom of the pack had a removable SPACER in the bottom, about 8-10mm thick, which easily came out, and would have allowed room for the larger Sub-C sized batteries! As I stated above, the larger ones have the higher 2500 mAh capacity vs. the smaller 4/5ths Sub-C at 1600 mAh! JAT.

Also, when searching eBay, I used "NiCd Sub-C tabs" to find these.
After the 4 hours of charging, put it in the drill and it had tons of power and torque, just like NEW!

Yep, plan on getting a timer and charging it at least once a month!
T.C.

[Lonerider62]

That was a job well-done. I doubt I would have had the patience or even the incination to go for a project like that. It is so true that just when you think you have a battery powered tool that will surely be te top of the line and live forever, either the same manufacturer or another will outdo it and in the process, make your battery pack obsolete. The only drill I have today is an old AEG corded I bought for my company 20 years ago. It failed within about a week of buying it and it was sent back for repair. Got it back, and it still goes like new but the cord is getting pretty chewed up and will more than likely electrocute me sooner or later. It's a 1/2 " drive and that's probably why it has lasted. It is far more drill that I almost ever need and that is perhaps why so many cordless fail. We tend to abuse them by drilling larger holes or harder material than the drill was meant for in the first place. I know I've litterally burned up a couple trying to make a 3/8 drive do the job a 1/2 was meant for.