Would you trust 10 year old tires?

[jwhughes3]

Probably was 40psi

It will KILL you.



John

[jetmechmarty]

This all started with the Ford Explorer/ Firestone debacle. Those tires were prone to fail at high speed, when underinflated. They came OEM on a vehicle that was deadly upon rollover.

Personally, I'm fussy about the tires on my motorcycle. I have witnessed people on motorcycles with hard, dried out, age cracked tires, just giving it a thrashing on these mountain roads without incident or care. YMMV.

[Danny Crawdad]

At the risk of stirring up this controversy again, I find it ironic that some will recommend throwing out tires that may be perfectly serviceable simply due to age, while there's little mention of the other rubber parts that are equally as important; the brake seals and lines.

But the frictional properties of brake lines aren't what is holding you to the road -- a brake line can dry rot on the outside considerably and still have some internal strength, and even continue to work when it's literally falling apart inside. It is just a medium to transport hydraulic fluid. Doesn't make it any less dangerous, but it still works, and brake failure doesn't necessarily mean immediate crash like tire failure will. With the tire, that moment between "firmly planted contact patch" and "brittle rubber sends me flying into a bus" is much more critically linked to the exterior conditions of the tire. That contact patch is quite literally the only connection between your bike in the road. If the friction properties are degraded due to age, environmental, or chemical contamination, you could be in trouble.

Like you said, though, ALL rubber stuff needs to be regularly checked and repaired. When I pulled my petcocks, someone had just slapped silicone over the old, worn gaskets. They cost all of $3/ea. When in doubt, REPLACE!

[Irukandji]

Durometer

For the guys that have worked in a bike shop, how many of you had used( or even seen) a durometer for testing tires?
Would you still ride the tires if they passed the test even if they were over the assumed throw away date?

[Danny Crawdad]

For the guys that have worked in a bike shop, how many of you had used( or even seen) a durometer for testing tires?
Would you still ride the tires if they passed the test even if they were over the assumed throw away date?

I haven't worked in a bike shop, but I have used a durometer, and they work well relative to the durometer itself and the tire. If I knew the original durometer reading of the tire using the same durometer, and then tested them 10 years later and the same durometer showed readings within spec, I would probably be more confident, but for the cost of a set of tires, I would likely still replace.

[crazy steve]

For the guys that have worked in a bike shop, how many of you had used (or even seen) a durometer for testing tires?
Would you still ride the tires if they passed the test even if they were over the assumed throw away date?

A voice of reason.... most are missing the point. I'll repeat; if you live in the sunbelt (as almost all responders to this post do), the 'expiration date' will likely be reasonably accurate. But if you live in a cooler climate, the tire will not age as fast. Remember, the testing showed that ageing effects were exponential, not linear; i.e. a 10% increase in ageing factors caused more than a 10% reduction in life.

My personal experience is that any tire will 'age' to a degree, and even tires that are well within their 'expiration' period will surface oxidize if they sit unused for an extended length of time. But I've also found that even if this is the case, most can be 'renewed' by simply 'breaking them in' and wearing off that outer surface. The same process you would use for breaking in a new tire, and for pretty much the same reasons; to remove any outer layers of hardened rubber, contaminates, or mold releasers. That's why virtually all bike tire makers recommend a break-in period.

Common sense enters into this also; if the tire has obvious issues like cracking and/or the entire tire body has gotten very hard/stiff, yeah, I wouldn't run it. And riding habits enter into this also; if you're a rider that expects 100% out of your tires at all times, these probably won't work for you. But all tires start degrading from the moment they pop out of the mold, not to mention the very real differences between a 'sport' tire and one designed for touring. But just because it's reached that 'magical' date doesn't always mean it's bad...

[Danny Crawdad]

A voice of reason.... most are missing the point.

No, I'm completely agreeing -- the tires are affected and degraded by environmental factors, and a tire is not necessarily bad because it hits a certain age. That age is a guideline, and like you said, largely due to the Firestone mess that went on several years back. I was involved in the litigation for some of that.

The point I am making is that tires are one of the primary safety devices on your motorcycle. They affect braking, handling, steering, and adhesion to the road. Yes, you very likely CAN get by running a 10 year old tire that has been stored well, but why in the world someone would want to risk it to save a couple of bucks is beyond me. I guess life is not as valuable to some. Just as I replace my brake lines at the 2 year limit because it is a Good Idea (tm), I treat tires the same way, and they are much more critical in my opinion.

Now, I'm from Alabama, so my gut instinct is to just do a roaring burnout to roast the oxidation off the outside, and then roll with it, but self-preservation wins every time .

[crazy steve]

Yes, you very likely CAN get by running a 10 year old tire that has been stored well, but why in the world someone would want to risk it to save a couple of bucks is beyond me. I guess life is not as valuable to some...

Oh, I value my hide quite a bit, thank you But I also loath to throw away money if there's no reason to do so. Where I live the riding season is short (given how I'm strictly a fair-weather rider), I have multiple bikes, and I also don't ride as much as I used to due to a bad back. And the average temps here are considerably lower than Phoenix (about 1/2, so if those findings are to be believed, my tires should be good for a minimum of 12 years). So if I followed that 'guideline', I'd be replacing most of my tires well before they're actually worn out. But I also read the entire report that 'guideline' came out of, and came to the conclusion that the 'risk' involved was pretty much non-existent for me, and unlikely for most. Sure, there's some anedotal evidence out there, but in all cases I could find the tires were really old, and even with those they couldn't pinpoint the actual cause with certainty after investigating. The DOT did attempt to find out how many tire failures could be attributed to only age, but failed to come up with more than a possible handful; they ended up saying those were 'statistically insignificant' given the very small numbers.

I'm not advocating that owners ignore their tires; I'm probably more safety-conscious than most and wouldn't hesitate to replace a tire (or any other part) that appears to be marginal. But make an informed decision, not one based on a 'guideline' that reflects primarily the fear of liabilty from lawsuits on the part of the tire manufacturers...

[jetmechmarty]

Steve,

Does the sun ever shine in Yelm? I'm in Seattle often, and it seems it's always gloomy. I'm sure it helps your tires.

If this age thing is so important, why to you have to be an expert to read the date code? Big Brother should be watching out for us!

[crazy steve]

Steve, does the sun ever shine in Yelm? I'm in Seattle often, and it seems it's always gloomy. I'm sure it helps your tires....

LOL!!! Well, what you call 'gloomy' may be a nice day here depending on the season... Sure, we get sun, but not like those of you who live in the sunbelt. My ideal day would be temps in the mid-70s, light clouds with sun, and a slight breeze off the sound. Anything above 60 degrees is short-sleeve shirt weather... It all depends on what you're used to. But things getting baked out in the sun is a slooow process here....

[Danny Crawdad]

Oh, I value my hide quite a bit, thank you But I also loath to throw away money if there's no reason to do so.

Did not mean you, hope you didn't take that as a jab at ya . You have the knowledge and understanding to make an informed decision about your tires. A lot of folks will say "Ah, a tire's a tire" and throw on a dry-rotted, weather worn, unsafe tire without any consideration as to what role that tire plays in keeping their blood on the inside. That's bad news .

[Elevener]

Ya know steve....even if some ten year old tires are good, its not a good idea to keep advocating them. They may be or they may not be. Tires on a bike are pretty important, you only got two and can fall over.

You also have to consider the audience your talking to ( the internet in general) and the fact your a mod. I just hope someone you talk into using old tires doesnt have a problem with them.

[crazy steve]

Hey, all I'm 'advocating' is that the individual owner spend a bit of time and educate themselves before deciding. As I've said several times, if you live in the sunbelt that 'guideline' may be accurate. But blindly following that still won't guarantee safe tires either; I recall some Avons I ran in the 70s that weather-checked after only two seasons, even in the mild NW climate. Would you have continued running those, even if they were still well within the guideline?

One thing that many have lost sight of; these 'expiration dates' are only guidelines or 'recommendations'; not a single tire manufacturer has flat-out stated that their tires will become unsafe if ran beyond those dates. When that happens, then I'd say it will carry a bit more weight...

[trbig]

Yes, heat and U.V. rays help to accelerate break down of rubber, but something nobody has mentioned is that oxygen breaks down the rubber. That's why they still go bad on vehicles in museums that are temp. controlled and no sun. If your tire has been exposed to oxygen, then the breakdown molecularly is happening. I suspect this is why bike tires are stored in plastic bags in the warehouses.


I can't quote where I've read it, but I've heard over and over about a 5 year period for tires. Nobody has to be a genius to figure out the date stamp. It's a 4 number code melted into the sidewall inside an oval. The first two numbers are the week the tire was made (From 01 to 52) and the second two are the year. My tires on the XJ when I first bought it were stamped "1389". The tires looked great and I knew nothing of this date code at the time. Only problem was it was @ 2005. (16 years) I put several hundred miles on this tire until it blew out going (luckily) in a straight line at 70mph.

Does a gallon of milk necessarily go bad on the date stamped on it? Nope. There's lots of factors that determine when that happens, but it gives you a good guide to go by. You can give it the sniff test to determine if it's bad, but unfortunately, there's not an easy sniff test for a tire. From the moment it's manufactured, a tire is slowly degrading. Usually, the only sure way to know a tire is bad is when it fails. In my case, I was stuck on the side of the road, depending on someone to come get me and help me load the bike, and I had to pay the much-elevated local bike tire prices simply because I had to have it. That alone cost me more than a new tire would have, since it's nearly twice the price here. Plus, I was hours late to work. If I'd laid the bike down, I would have probably gotten some road rash at a minimum, so how much is your skin and the pain/scars of healing worth? Even with good insurance, the cost of a single E.R. visit is going to be much more than a tire, not to mention trying to fix your bike back up. In a worst case scenario, how much will a funeral cost your family these days, or a loss of your income? How about if you don't die and are simply crippled or comatose?

Your question is, would I TRUST a 10 year old tire? Not at all. So, will a ten year old tire work? Maybe, maybe not. Are you a gambling type person? Do you like high stakes? It's likely that the only way you'll know one is bad is when the tire is flexing in a curve. Hopefully it's a curve to the left where you slide off the road and not into oncoming traffic on a right turn. Even when times are tough financially, you can pick up a SET of Shinkos for @ $100. Could you possibly be throwing away a still useable tire? Sure, but does it honestly really matter with so much at stake when you look at the price of a tire? It's already inherently dangerous to ride a motorcycle. No use adding to that unnecessarily on a questionable tire... in my opinion, which could be considered hypocritical considering all the other stupid $#*@ I do on a bike. At least I'm doing that stupid $#*@ on decent tires.


Tod

[madmax-im]

Interesting POVs' Well said Tod...IMHO to answer the question...In no way shape or form would i trust 10 year old tires...for all the above stated reasons...and for my own peace of mind...