TITLES for barn finds

[tom clisham]

This subject has been adressed many times on this forum, without solution.
You buy a bike, the PO says he'll get the title to you in a week or so, & disappears. Meanwhile you spend time & $ on the bike & never get to LEGALLY ride it.

Here's a possible solution:

I had a 58 Harley this happened with. I finally found a contact in Alabama (not titles on vehicles there prior to 1970). I sent him a bill of sale selling him the bike. He registered it there. He than "sold" it back to me, with a notarized bill of sale & copy of Alabama registration. Illinois DMV accepted this paperwork without question & issued me an Illinois title.

What I'm thinking is:
Why can't a member in a "NO TITLE" state do something like this on our forums??? FOR OUR MEMBERS WITH SIMILAR SITUATION.
MY TRANSACTION ABOVE ALSO REQUIRED A SIGNED STAEMENT THAT THE ID"d BIKE WAS NOT STOLEN.

It's possible that a legal set-up like this can be done by a member in a no title state, & maybe pick up a few extra bucks for the effort.

Maybe we can keep some of these gems from being destroyed for no reason.

What are your thoughts, guys?

[CatatonicBug]

The hard part is finding a place that will do that for bikes as young as ours. Also, the requirement of an inspection by local law enforcement for proof that it's not stolen can cause an issue, if the non-title state requires it.

There are services out there that will do all this for about $300, but the time and hassle involved is really worth that much. The laws are getting more and more strict about this topic, and that makes the prices go up.

[DAVINCI]

Here's a solution for you: Don't dump a dime into it till you get legal ownership. Until you get the papers back from DMV with your name on 'em, consider it a parts bike.

[cywelchjr]

Here's a solution for you: Don't dump a dime into it till you get legal ownership. Until you get the papers back from DMV with your name on 'em, consider it a parts bike.

I think his point is trying to find a way to save bikes that except for not having a title, would not be a parts bike but would be a daily rider.

[crazy steve]

...There are services out there that will do all this for about $300, but the time and hassle involved is really worth that much. The laws are getting more and more strict about this topic, and that makes the prices go up.

Not even that will always work; I know here the DMV watches for these, and will put you under the microscope. It's getting increasingly harder to re-title anything, particularly if paperwork is lacking. You really need to do your homework up-front...

I'm with Randy; no title, it's parts....

[DGXSER]

Sorry for the long post, but this is one of those you have to live it to believe it things.

It frustrates the living daylights out of me that the government would rather see good vehicles become fodder for the land fill than set up some way to allow it to be re-titled. But I also get the fact that there is a stolen vehicle market out there, and honestly, if I lived in a no-title state, I'd struggle to perform this service for anyone and everyone who ask me on an internet forum because of it.

Here is an interesting story I may have conveyed before over the years, We use to own an 88 Corolla. My mother lives on a very busy 2 lane highway so I set the car in her front yard for sale. She sold it for me (I presigned the title so she could) and let the person use our old plate to get home.

This was in May, come January I get a call form the guy who bought the car, he needs a new title, lost the old one. I says, well it's in your name not mine so go get it, he says he never transfered the title. So I ask him how he got plates for it, he tells me he had to replace the engine as it blew the week he got the car, just got around to it, never drove it and never had plates. (The engine ran like a Singer sewing machine, no way in hades this is true). So I recall that SWMBO birthday is in January, and here in Ohio, the plates run on your birthdate. So I explain to him that I am aware of what happened here and I will not get a new title, he can feel lucky I don't report the car stolen and take it back from him. A few nasty phone calls later we agree I will get a new title and he will pay for the title and my time to the tune of $50 to get it.

Now the REAL fun begins. We get a phone call from the head of the adjoining counties Sheriffs office, the Drug Enforcement Task force. They want to speak to SWMBO. After a few questions they tell me that they suspect her of being this guys GF driving the car around delivering "packages" for him, since it is registered in her name, according to the plates on the car. We clear that up and then they advise me they have this A-hole in custody on felony drug trafficing, the car is in impound and I need to give them the title to the car. And did I mention that this was at the same time SWMBO had applied to take the BAR exam, they do a more thorough background check than the dang Military does for Security clearances.

Now I suspected this was a scam by the A-hole and some of his buddies to get the title, so after ensuring the person who showed up was indeed a Sheriff and who he said he was through IDs and a phone call to the Sheriffs office, I give them the title, but with it signed over to A-hole, they will not have record they took the car from me or my wife.

So after all that, no, I do not think I will put myself in a position to possibly be laundering stolen vehicles. I like most of you folks, but not THAT much. And BTW, think twice before you let anyone drive off with your plates on a vehicle.

[crazy steve]

...So after all that, no, I do not think I will put myself in a position to possibly be laundering stolen vehicles. I like most of you folks, but not THAT much. And BTW, think twice before you let anyone drive off with your plates on a vehicle.

And THAT folks, is why it's getting harder to do these sort of things...

[BA80]

And BTW, think twice before you let anyone drive off with your plates on a vehicle.

In Oklahoma the tags stay with the vehicle when you sell it.

[cywelchjr]

Sorry for the long post, but this is one of those you have to live it to believe it things.

It frustrates the living daylights out of me that the government would rather see good vehicles become fodder for the land fill than set up some way to allow it to be re-titled. But I also get the fact that there is a stolen vehicle market out there, and honestly, if I lived in a no-title state, I'd struggle to perform this service for anyone and everyone who ask me on an internet forum because of it.

Here is an interesting story I may have conveyed before over the years, We use to own an 88 Corolla. My mother lives on a very busy 2 lane highway so I set the car in her front yard for sale. She sold it for me (I presigned the title so she could) and let the person use our old plate to get home.

This was in May, come January I get a call form the guy who bought the car, he needs a new title, lost the old one. I says, well it's in your name not mine so go get it, he says he never transfered the title. So I ask him how he got plates for it, he tells me he had to replace the engine as it blew the week he got the car, just got around to it, never drove it and never had plates. (The engine ran like a Singer sewing machine, no way in hades this is true). So I recall that SWMBO birthday is in January, and here in Ohio, the plates run on your birthdate. So I explain to him that I am aware of what happened here and I will not get a new title, he can feel lucky I don't report the car stolen and take it back from him. A few nasty phone calls later we agree I will get a new title and he will pay for the title and my time to the tune of $50 to get it.

Now the REAL fun begins. We get a phone call from the head of the adjoining counties Sheriffs office, the Drug Enforcement Task force. They want to speak to SWMBO. After a few questions they tell me that they suspect her of being this guys GF driving the car around delivering "packages" for him, since it is registered in her name, according to the plates on the car. We clear that up and then they advise me they have this A-hole in custody on felony drug trafficing, the car is in impound and I need to give them the title to the car. And did I mention that this was at the same time SWMBO had applied to take the BAR exam, they do a more thorough background check than the dang Military does for Security clearances.

Now I suspected this was a scam by the A-hole and some of his buddies to get the title, so after ensuring the person who showed up was indeed a Sheriff and who he said he was through IDs and a phone call to the Sheriffs office, I give them the title, but with it signed over to A-hole, they will not have record they took the car from me or my wife.

So after all that, no, I do not think I will put myself in a position to possibly be laundering stolen vehicles. I like most of you folks, but not THAT much. And BTW, think twice before you let anyone drive off with your plates on a vehicle.

That's interesting. I didn't know it worked that way in your state. Here (and in most states I've dealt with) the plates stay with the car, as they belong to the car, not the person. In Ca, part of the title is a section that tears off call a "release of liability" which the seller is required to fill out and either mail in or take to DMV. Once this is done, this tells DMV that you no longer own the vehicle and who you sold it to and when, it also gets you off the hook if they do something with it AFTER you have filed this form. It also starts the clock on them for the penalties for late title transfer fees, so if they don't transfer the title within 10 days as required by law, the penalties get charged to them by DMV when they do. Of course almost nobody fills out this form, but it's something the seller is supposed to do, and it's there to protect the seller (and give the state a way to get more money from the person you sold it too when they don't transfer the title on time, cause almost nobody ever does).

[cywelchjr]

And THAT folks, is why it's getting harder to do these sort of things...

Yeah, Ca does have a way to do it, but they don't make it easy, just possible, and depending on how old the vehicle is, expensive (they require a bond equal to double the value of the vehicle as part of the process). And it can take a while, but as long as the vehicle isn't stolen, and you can explain how you ended up with it and all, you can eventually get it registered.

[CatatonicBug]

Here in MO, the plates belong to the PERSON, not the vehicle. I found that out when I bought my bike. The seller left the old plate on it, and I kinda liked the random number on it, so I figured I'd just put my new tags on the old plate. Nope - I had to get a new plate to put my new sticker on. Of course then, if I sell the bike, I can then move this plate to the new bike, and the sitcker then applies to that new bike until it expires, instead of transferring to the new owner. This last year, they forced EVERYONE to get new plates on ALL vehicles to update to the new format/picture that puts the sticker in the center of the plate to reduce the chances of someone cutting the corners off and stealing your stickers. Kinda sucks because you can't then use the "vintage" plates as an advertisement of how old your vehicle is. I always loved seeing the old black CA plates on the classic cars out there...

[cywelchjr]

Here in MO, the plates belong to the PERSON, not the vehicle. I found that out when I bought my bike. The seller left the old plate on it, and I kinda liked the random number on it, so I figured I'd just put my new tags on the old plate. Nope - I had to get a new plate to put my new sticker on. Of course then, if I sell the bike, I can then move this plate to the new bike, and the sitcker then applies to that new bike until it expires, instead of transferring to the new owner. This last year, they forced EVERYONE to get new plates on ALL vehicles to update to the new format/picture that puts the sticker in the center of the plate to reduce the chances of someone cutting the corners off and stealing your stickers. Kinda sucks because you can't then use the "vintage" plates as an advertisement of how old your vehicle is. I always loved seeing the old black CA plates on the classic cars out there...

Yup, it's nice having year of manufacture plates (which I have on my bike, without even trying since it's always been a Ca bike and it's still got the original plates on it). Otherwise it's a special cost to put them on a vehicle that's 25 or more model years old, but it's getting to where going back 25 years the plates look the same as they do now (almost at least).

I don't have the black plates, but I have the in between blue ones. And yes, I know people who damaged their plates just to get the newer style. Idiots!

[rpgoerlich]

In Texas, The State told me that plates are to come off the vehicle when sold.

3 years ago I sold an 80 XJ650 to a local guy and didn't remove the plate. Turns out he never got it titled or registered in his name. I filed a Vehicle Notification Transfer form with the State when I sold it but the state never made a notation on the title record. This year I start getting notices that the motorcycle has been abusing toll roads(expired plate and all) to the tune of $300. I promptly contacted the toll road authority and they said I was the owner of record and responsible. Contacted the state and advised them of when the transfer happened and they gave me a website to file this form online which I did, noting the sale date from the receipt I saved. Notified the Toll Road Authority of the transfer and they kindly removed the charges and put them over on the his name and address he gave me when sold. When I bought it, I hunted down the Owner of record and drove to his house with the bike, unsigned title and 130U form and he signed it over to me(even threw in a service manual for it I was ready to pay him for his kindness but he wouldn't have it).

I also did the ITS Title thing a few years ago on a 77XS750 to which the owner was deceased with no family. Cost then was $165 which got me Maine registration and plate good for a year which took just over 30 days. Transferred to Texas Title a year later for $80.

This year I looked at ITS for an 83XS650 but there prices went up($275) with their reputation going down. Ended up getting a bonded title as the owner had passed and the widow was a no go for the title. Cost me an extra $120 for the bond but was worth it. Bond stays on the title for 3 years and is negotiable.

[tom clisham]

Nice topic

Glad I got everyone talking (sort of) about titleing old xs1100's.

It can be done with proper documentation. It's easy to find out if a bikes stolen. Have the PD run the vin#.

Lte's not try so hard to find reasons not to do it.

[crazy steve]

Part of it's economics; not everyone is willing or able to spend an additional several hundred dollars or more on a bike that may only be worth a few hundred when you get it. You really do need to be aware of your local laws when attempting something like this, as seemingly minor details can sometimes hopelessly muddy the waters.

I've got a project bike that if it's ever sold (probably when I'm dead!), may prove to be a problem to it's new owner. I have a legitimate, licenseable clear-title frame, but the motor has no serial number. Well, it sort of has a number; it's marked 'racing use only' as it was a factory 'team' motor but was never sold to the public. I got it from a privateer (who got it through 'factory connections') who quit racing. Not a problem here, but if it were subject to inspection at some point, it might be. So even motor swaps can be an issue depending on where you live.

I wish it were easier, but it is what it is...