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  • An Interesting Thought

    After having changed my rear tire and going with a larger tire than stock (130/90-17 instead of 130/70-17) I find that my gearing has also be affected significantly. I've also be recalling those who love the 750 FD swap VS those not so happy with it, and it seems to me that it's a matter of being a special or a standard in addition to the style of riding done on the bike.

    Changing the rear like I did, I find that at 65 I'm turning 4k now, which seems pretty close to what specials get with the 750 FD. That tells me that going with the 750 FD on a standard, particularly with a larger tire than stock, is going to result in lower RPM's than a special would since even the stock rear on a standard is a good 2 inches larger in outside diameter, and the larger 90 on my standard is a good 2 inches larger even. So it seems that 3Phase is right about it being tough to corner in the twisties on his standard, and others who say it's not with their specials are right also, as the smaller rear tire makes for a lower effective final ratio.

    What I'm trying to get to here, is that clearly the 750 FD swap is highly desirable for most specials, but of slightly less desirability on a standard unless it does mostly highway riding with little surface street or twisty road riding. I'm finding with just a tire change, that I'm having to stay in 1st in parking lots, and on normal corners I'm having to get down closer to idle in 2nd than I might feel good about if I was trying to keep it moving briskly. I'm also finding that on my commuting ride that I'm not spending as much time in 5th, but rather I'm often running in 4th just to keep the RPM's at 3k or higher.

    So, I just might be offering to trade a prepped 750 FD and driveshaft with the copper pipe spacer already in place for a good 1100 FD to replace my leaking one, I'm just not at the moment seeing any advantage to swapping in the 750 FD with this tire, and I'm liking the extra clearance I get with it (and not being inseam challenged at 6' the extra height is not an issue for me) and the 130/90-17 seems to be a LOT easier to find than the 70 is. I'm really enjoying being able to pull into my driveway without the center stand scraping on the curb.
    Cy

    1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
    Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
    Vetter Windjammer IV
    Vetter hard bags & Trunk
    OEM Luggage Rack
    Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
    Spade Fuse Box
    Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
    750 FD Mod
    TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
    XJ1100 Front Footpegs
    XJ1100 Shocks

    I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

  • #2
    I run the S11 130/17 with the 750 FD and it does fine on twisty hilly roads, you just have to get used to being in a lower gear sometimes. I do most of my riding on flat roads though. Having the lower RPM at higher speed is worth it for me, JMHO
    2H7 (79) owned since '89
    3H3 owned since '06

    "If it ain't broke, modify it"

    Comment


    • #3
      Cool, so what RPM are you running at 65? I'm just curious as to what to expect with the larger tire AND the 750 FD. My primary concern is that we have some pretty tight twisties in the mountains here, and while I don't mind running in a lower gear, I'm concerned with some roads I've ridden that required 1st gear even with the correct rear tire and stock FD.

      I've been to Florida, and I know you guys don't have anything we would even call twisty over here, so I'm just not sure if it's what I want to do at this point, but we shall see. I'll have to say, right now I'm really happy with where things are running with the taller tire.
      Cy

      1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
      Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
      Vetter Windjammer IV
      Vetter hard bags & Trunk
      OEM Luggage Rack
      Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
      Spade Fuse Box
      Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
      750 FD Mod
      TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
      XJ1100 Front Footpegs
      XJ1100 Shocks

      I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting observation! I would never have guessed that the increase in tire size would affect gearing so much. If you need one, I have a good 1100 MNS FD I don't need anymore. It might not match the look on your G though.
        1980 XS850SG - Sold
        1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
        Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
        Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).

        Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
        -H. Ford

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cywelchjr View Post
          Cool, so what RPM are you running at 65?
          Can't remember exactly, probably 3300-3500. Whatever you are running at 65, just subtract about 800 RPM.
          2H7 (79) owned since '89
          3H3 owned since '06

          "If it ain't broke, modify it"

          Comment


          • #6
            Guess I thought the 90 was stock for all 11s. I know it is for the Specials.

            I've always said that the 750FD was more of a cruiser/highway issue. In fact, on a Special I think if I were going to ride more twisty mountain roads than highway, I would swap back to the stock FD for that.

            If you find you still want to swap Cy, I have the stock FD from Thunderstruck sitting here. Be glad to swap you for the 750FD. It is black with the raised ridges silver, stock for the SH models.
            Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

            When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

            81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
            80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


            Previously owned
            93 GSX600F
            80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
            81 XS1100 Special
            81 CB750 C
            80 CB750 C
            78 XS750

            Comment


            • #7
              This is not at all surprising to me; I've always been aware that a small diameter change has a larger effect on circumference than most people realise. This is likely the main reason the Special models had slightly better 1/4 mile times compared to their same-year standard brothers; they had an effectively lower gear ratio.

              As to tire sizes, also keep in mind that the original size for the standard was a 4.50H-17, not a 130/90. That size came later as an 'equivilent' when they converted to all-metric sizing. In reality, this size is smaller than the 4.50 by a considerable amount. I still have a 'vintage' Conti 4.50 here (25 years old if it's a day) and even with being more than 1/2 worn, it still has a slightly larger diameter than the new 160/80-16 I'm fitting to mine; which by the way, has a larger diameter than any 130/90-17 I've found in spite of being a 16" tire which is why I'm using it. Some rather serious swingarm mods needed to fit it though....

              Puts the performance of the '78E into a bit different light; if it had been fitted with the 16" wheel/tire, it probably would have gone 11.60s...
              Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

              '78E original owner - resto project
              '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
              '82 XJ rebuild project
              '80SG restified, red SOLD
              '79F parts...
              '81H more parts...

              Other current bikes:
              '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
              '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
              '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
              Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
              Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

              Comment


              • #8
                This site will help you out with figuring out what you want to run for a tire. You will have to figure out the final ratio but the tire sizes do indeed change things. I have a spare 750 and a spare 1100 final drive here if anyone needs it as well. Anyways here is the tire site I was yapping about..
                http://www.powerdog.com/tiresize.cgi
                2-79 XS1100 SF
                2-78 XS1100 E Best bike Ever
                80 XS 1100 SG Big bore kit but not fully running yet.
                Couple of more parts bikes of which 2 more will live!

                Comment


                • #9
                  RPM's

                  With the 750 mod on my E at 3000 rpm it indicates 50 mph (actual 45) and for every 500 rpm after that it will indicate 10 mph so, 3500 - 60, 4000 - 70, 4500 - 80, 5000 - 90, etc.
                  Last edited by planedick; 12-06-2010, 07:45 PM. Reason: typos
                  You can't stay young forever, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

                  '78E "Pathfinder" Show bike...
                  Lovingly restored by Dave Delzell
                  Drilled airbox
                  Tkat fork brace
                  Hardly mufflers
                  late model carbs
                  Newer style fuses
                  Oil pressure guage
                  Custom security system
                  Stainless braid brake lines

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm running a 850 FD in very hilly, tight, curvy road country on a SG. No gear ratio problems. It goes a little faster across flat ground at idle than it used to, and I sometimes wonder if the 3.3 rear might be more fun to ride there. Mostly I'm happy with the 2.9, especially for any kind of road work. It saves me a little fuel if I let it. Otherwise, it's about like carrying maybe an extra 50 lbs or so on the bike with the 3.3 ratio. I had a 210# passenger for a day in the coastal mountains and got 35.5 mpg on that tank. @ 55 mph (local legal speed) I'm running 3150 to 3200 rpm. Very pleasant. Sometimes I drop to 4th for a pass. Works for me.
                    1980 XS 11 Special: The King of Kong, 9th wonder of the world. Pacifico fairing, chopped shield, Yamaha hard bags, Diamond seat, T-Kat fork brace, XJ top end, YICS Eliminator, '80 carbs from Spyder Cycle Works, K&N Air filter, Fuse block, stainless steel valves & reg/rect from Oregon MC Parts. Raptor CCT, XJ air shocks, 850 FD, Sportster mufflers, Standard handle bar, Tusk Bar Risers, SS braided brake lines. Cat Eye speedometer. HID projector beam headlight, LED running lights.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Poprock View Post
                      I'm running a 850 FD in very hilly, tight, curvy road country on a SG. No gear ratio problems. It goes a little faster across flat ground at idle than it used to, and I sometimes wonder if the 3.3 rear might be more fun to ride there. Mostly I'm happy with the 2.9, especially for any kind of road work. It saves me a little fuel if I let it. Otherwise, it's about like carrying maybe an extra 50 lbs or so on the bike with the 3.3 ratio. I had a 210# passenger for a day in the coastal mountains and got 35.5 mpg on that tank. @ 55 mph (local legal speed) I'm running 3150 to 3200 rpm. Very pleasant. Sometimes I drop to 4th for a pass. Works for me.
                      I think you made my whole point. There is a pretty significant difference between the 16' special rear tire and the correct 17' standard tire. Just between the 130/70 and 130/90 there is a quite significant difference in the diameter and RPM in the gears. 65 now is 4k, with everything else proportional to that. Also the side stand leans the bike over a LOT more, and the center stand picks the rear tire about 3/4 of an inch off the ground now, where before it was almost 3 inches off the ground on the center stand, and the side stand leaned the bike over just barely enough to be comfortable on level ground, any lean in the wrong direction (like parking on the road by the curb) was way too close to vertical for my comfort.

                      It looks like specials almost NEED the 750/850 FD and the standards with the smaller than stock rear tire pretty much need it as well, but with the proper size tire on the standard it may be too much depending on your riding habits. I'm still thinking on it see as to how I have to spend most of my time now in 4th gear, as I can't legally get going fast enough most of where I ride to get into 5th, except for the freeway which I do as little of as I can get away with.
                      Cy

                      1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
                      Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
                      Vetter Windjammer IV
                      Vetter hard bags & Trunk
                      OEM Luggage Rack
                      Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
                      Spade Fuse Box
                      Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
                      750 FD Mod
                      TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
                      XJ1100 Front Footpegs
                      XJ1100 Shocks

                      I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you already have both style FDs, and you're curious, swapping them in and out isn't hard, and it's a completely reversible procedure. If you ever do a A/B comparo, I'd be interested in your results.
                        1980 XS 11 Special: The King of Kong, 9th wonder of the world. Pacifico fairing, chopped shield, Yamaha hard bags, Diamond seat, T-Kat fork brace, XJ top end, YICS Eliminator, '80 carbs from Spyder Cycle Works, K&N Air filter, Fuse block, stainless steel valves & reg/rect from Oregon MC Parts. Raptor CCT, XJ air shocks, 850 FD, Sportster mufflers, Standard handle bar, Tusk Bar Risers, SS braided brake lines. Cat Eye speedometer. HID projector beam headlight, LED running lights.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I was sent a couple of vintage magazines recently by friend (over on my Sportster list no less) featuring reviews of XS11s. One of the things that was pointed out in one of the write-up was how much the diiferent tires sizes between the standard and the special affected final drive ratios. They noted the difference as nearly 5% (remember, this was still the taller 4.50H-17 vs the 130/90-16, not the 'modern' 130/90-17) and surmised that this was one the major reasons the special had slightly better 1/4 mile times compared to the same-year standard.

                          Five percent doesn't sound like much, but if you do the math you'll find that the special has an effective FD ratio of 3.47:1 compared to the standards' 3.3:1. That's a fairly big difference. Switching to the 2.9:1 FD gives the special an effective ratio of 3.15:1, neatly bracketing the stock 3.3 of the standard. So if you're running or planning on running the smaller 16" rear tire, this is probably a good move.

                          The other thing mentioned that was interesting was that they liked the higher engine speed; they claimed that it moved the engine out of a 'resonant zone' at highway speeds and made the bike smoother. Dunno about that, but that's what they said...
                          Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

                          '78E original owner - resto project
                          '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
                          '82 XJ rebuild project
                          '80SG restified, red SOLD
                          '79F parts...
                          '81H more parts...

                          Other current bikes:
                          '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
                          '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
                          '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
                          Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
                          Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
                            They noted the difference as nearly 5% (remember, this was still the taller 4.50H-17 vs the 130/90-16, not the 'modern' 130/90-17) and surmised that this was one the major reasons the special had slightly better 1/4 mile times compared to the same-year standard.
                            Wasn't the stock tire for the special also a non-metric tire, which may have actually been taller than the modern 130/90-16 just as the original stocker was taller than the 130/90-17 is. This may have changed the numbers yet even more, and if the diff is the same, lowers the final drive ratio on the special even further. Coming back to work from lunch I made a point of getting on the freeway today (for the one exit over) and verified that 55MPH is 3400 RPM with my new tire and the stock FD.
                            Cy

                            1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
                            Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
                            Vetter Windjammer IV
                            Vetter hard bags & Trunk
                            OEM Luggage Rack
                            Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
                            Spade Fuse Box
                            Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
                            750 FD Mod
                            TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
                            XJ1100 Front Footpegs
                            XJ1100 Shocks

                            I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gearing

                              I would like to add my observations about RPM and speed, but my tach wanders between 3 and 4 thousand RPM so I can not be accurate.
                              Mostly I am at least a gear lower than my Suzuki but it has six of them.
                              Also I will be riding two up with gear, often on the Yami.
                              But, I think this is an easy way to raise the final ratio.
                              In the days of old we had to do the math to calculate speed.
                              This was after switching engines, gearboxes and rear ends on early Fords.
                              We had to measure the distance the rear tyre travelled under load, then multiply engines revs by the final drive, and subtract a percentage for slippage. This was checked against the mile markers on the highway.
                              10 minutes at 5000 revs over 15 miles yielded 90 mph in a 37 Ford hearse.
                              With the speedo drive off the front wheel, no worries on the bike.

                              Uncle Crusty

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