This is a discussion forum?

[trbig]

I figure at the speeds I normally ride, full gear would at best keep me on life support. Go out with a BANG! lol. I've got medical insurance, and lotsa life insurance.. enough to where I'm worth more dead anyway.. lol. My sometimes riding gear...






Sometimes I wear gear.. sometimes I don't. Some may call me an idiot ( I probably wouldn't argue) some may agree with me. There are just some days that feeling the wind is worth the risk to me. My dirt bike wrecks probably number in the hundreds, but I have only wrecked one street bike years ago.. face-first onto the concrete over the handlebars... no helmet... road rashed up.. a couple broke facial bones... burns from the exhaust where the bike layed against me while I was unconscious. SWMBO swore that was the last bike I'd ever ride. It was.. for about 10 years. But I started noticing that I was hanging my head out of the window while driving my work truck so I could feel the wind in my hair. So... I bought another bike and I'm glad I live in a place where I have the CHOICE to feel the wind in my hair still if I choose to.

You guys were all being way too agreeable.. had to throw this in here. lol. As far as the story.. I had read that one a couple years ago. Curious to how she is today.


Tod

[DGXSER]

I speak from the pulpit of experience and LUCK

When I first started riding I NEVER wore my helmet unless the law required. I actually got a ticket and a suspension over it when I still had my learners permit. Still never wore it. Rode 750CC bikes, that is what I learned on and rode. Then one day I was behind a car on a four lane road looking at the scenery and looked up to see the car stopped dead. I hit the brakes and slid into the car not going very fast by then, but fast enough. The forks bent back and the bike rose up and the fairing hit the back of the car. I went over the bike, over the car, and landed in the street beside the car. My helmet was on the lock on the bike. Fortunately I had the reflexes to put my arms over my head and face and when I came down head first my arms took the force and I rolled out of it and up on my feet. I was able to walk back and pick up the bike. Later at the hospital, due to the blood flowing from my left knee that took ten stitches from where it hit the fairing, I found out I also had a fractured elbow.

20 years later I am riding again, after taking the MSF course, with a full face helmet, steel toe boots, a leather jacket or heavy coat, and ALWAYS my leather gloves, and ALWAYS at least denim jeans. They say there are two kinds of riders, those that have wrecked and those that will. While I plan to do all I can to make sure I stay the former and not the later again, I still remember the thought of being in the air heading for a head first landing and thinking about my helmet strapped to the bike instead of my head. NOT going to happen again! No one gets that lucky twice. Some never get that lucky.

I am a believer. However, I do agree that we should have the right to allow Darwinism a chance to correct the over population of the earth.

[Big Daddy Funk]

For what it's worth

Every biker says they ride for the feeling of freedom. We should all try to respect each others freedom. That would include choice of riding gear.
Personally, I have about 35 seasons on my butt and have never had a serious crash But I have lost some friends. I get teased about wearing top of the line Full face as well as an armoured vented jacket, gauntlet gloves chaps and boots. I'm not worried about myself, I worry about my family and close friends as I have stood in those shoes. My only advice is we each should consider what the effect our choices will be on those we are responsible for. We all know of the many close calls we have on a regular basis. Sooner or later we will be in one. Choose carfully.
I also never allow a passenger. If they want to ride a bike,buy their own.

[GARTHXS]

I agree

On my past bikes I learned the hard way first a no helmet crash , I did the tuck and roll luckily just lost some skin , then lost it in some gravel and have the scars to prove it . After that always with a helmet and gloves and more recently body armor in my jackets and heavy jeans and boots , I am still looking into getting some of those kevlar cargo pants , they look like I would slide a little farther

[Dsxs11]

Seems to me all the gear would have helped, But then again so would have slowing down or smacking the pilot to let him know your sliding off. My wife always lets me know when she's not comfortable with what I'm doing.
Seems ATGATT is a crutch for inattentive riders and promotes a few unsafe acts. And I'm and either or it all depends on where I'm going or what I'm doing.
I've laid a Ducati down across the Arizona desert wearing ATG and got hurt pretty good (layed it down at 140} And layed down a GS 1100 wearing shorts and got a header burn.

[TADracer]

Its a choice.

Every biker says they ride for the feeling of freedom. We should all try to respect each others freedom. That would include choice of riding gear.

I kind of agree with Big Daddy funk....Safety gear is a personal choice. Having the choice does not release one from the concequences of the use or non-use. In Louisiana it used to be legal to ride without a helmet, now it is mandatory. I do not agree with the law but having said that, I never rode without a helmet nor would I allow a passenger to ride without at least basic protection.

My personal choice is to use safety equipment, every ride. I wear a full helmet, leather gloves, riding boots, Kevlar jeans and some sort of jacket ( light weight in the summer and heavy in the winter). And, I wear this even if I am just running out for a quicky ride.

[madmax-im]

You all make valid points about this being a matter of personal choice.My intent here is not to lecture you all but a healthy discussion I am glad to see.
When it comes to the choices of riding gear to wear there are many.The notion that gear is hot in the summer only is true if your wearing a heavy jacket as opposed to a mesh jacket...same is true for pants.While it seems to me that pants would be the least needed item of gear.I have gear for riding in the cooler months and gear for riding in the warmer months.My "winter" gear consists of a 3/4 length Olympia AST jacket with armor in the shoulder,elbows and along my back.It is waterproof and with a liner jacket good in any extreme of cold weather.My "winter" pants are Olympia Ranger II with armor in the knees and along the low back areas.In all weather I wear Danner GTX military duty boots 8" with side zips...and always wear gloves... My summer gear is also Olympia ...Airglide mesh pants and Airglide Mesh jacket.I always thought using ATG in the summer would be hot,but this gear is actually keeping me comfortable.I might add that the summer gear is just as armored as the winter gear. A word abt Kevlar...most Kevlar is not armored and it is really the armor that you need and not so much what the material the pants are made of.I also have two full face helmets...one is a Nolan N102 flip-face...and the other is a Shoei TZ-R non flip-face.The Shoei I use more in the cooler weather.Finally my choice of colors are freaking bright...I dont mind being seen so I wear Hi-Viz Lime/Yellow jackets.Any of you who have ridden with me can attest to this.The last thing I ould say is for 30 of the past 32 riding seasons I was NOT ATGATT.It was only after I bought my ST1100 that I decided to go this route.Before that it was half helmets and blue jeans and t-shirts with running shoes.At my age I felt that I had tempted fate long enough.While I have never been down in a serious accident in all these years...I'm at the point where I feel its just a matter of time.I expect the worst and try to anticipate it all the while hoping for the best.This sport is fraught with risks and wearing all the gear all the time may not even save your life...and in some cases for some it has not...there are no guarantees.However it is prudent to try and protect yourself to the point you feel comfortable with.God forbid anyone has a serious accident but if your wearing ATG then hopefully you can minimize your injuries,pain and suffering.That is my take on it

[kjohnson]

I'll be completely honest, I didn't know what ATGATT stood for so I was keeping my maw shut until someone elaborated. I had gathered from the story that it was something about gear, but I only scanned the story so if it was explained there, I missed it.

My minimum gear set = sturdy boots that go past the ankle, jeans, leather jacket, gloves and helmet with face shield. Long thermal undies, scarf, thicker gloves and skidoo mask are added when it gets colder. Still need rain gear, and some way to carry crap on the bikes all the time.

[madmax-im]

Kevin its an acronym...All The Gear All The Time

[CatatonicBug]

ATGATT = All the gear, all the time.

I am still new to this sport, and have not had the opportunity to take any long rides yet. However, I can't imagine not wearing a helmet. To me, that's like asking for death. The rocks and bugs that hit the windsheild of my cage are enough to convince me that full-face is the only way to go. I fully support mandatory helmet laws, for the same reason I support mandatory seatbelt laws. It just makes sense. As for other gear, I can understand how different people decide to wear different gear - much for the same reason as some people would never drive a Geo Metro because they feel unsafe in such a tiny car. However, I can't understand the need to go 140mph on the highway at ANY time. U.S. roads are just not designed for those speeds. The engineers who design them include things like banked, gradual corners, lane widths, altitude changes, and all sorts of other things to make driving as safe as possible, but if you are driving at those speeds, all that engineering goes out the window.

For the same reason that life insurance will not pay if you commit suicide, I think that there should also be a limit of what they'll pay if you die unprotected on a bike (or in a cage). It's still suicide if you ask me...

[kjohnson]

Ya, it clicked when I read the first post of this thread this morning (one of those "duh" moments). I do far too much scanning, and not enough actual reading. That is, unless I've got a copy of any of the "Life is a Road" books in my hand (thanks Dragonrider for the good reads).

All good though.

[Larrym]

Games Theory

If you flip a coin 9 times and each time it comes up heads, what are the odds that it will come up heads on the tenth toss?

Most people "feel" that the odds are greater that it will come up heads. This is not true. The actual odds are 50/50 for the tenth toss just like it was on every toss before that. Soooo, every ride anyone takes has a 50/50 chance of resulting in a fall/crash or the more desirable "post ride letdown" I feel when I turn off the ignition.

Risk management has two parts. First is the statistics that we all hear. Not to pick on the commercial airline industry, but according to the numbers presented it is "safer" than driving a car. Second part is what to do/happens when a crash does occur. That's when any reasonable person hopes that all that could be done to minimize the damage/loss of life has been done.

Every time I go on a ride I know that the coin is still spinning in the air. It's part of the excitement of riding for me. And when I put the bike away I know that something wonderful happened: the successful combination of a powerful machine and the alert/responsive rider. But each time I am aware of and prepared for the coin to land tails up.

I may not have/wear all of the state of the art "gear" but you can bet that I'm wearing clean underwear. I mean, that's my own personal comfort zone.

[latexeses]

I lost a friend back in the early 80's to a bike accident. Not what you might think though. When he rode he looked like a moto gp racer. Wore all the gear and to my knowledge never ever had been down. He rode a big Honda 6 cyl monster. He was a mechanic at the local Yamaha shop and his ride was imaculate. He and another good friend, who was also the other mechanic in the same shop were headed home after work. They had just pulled off of the freeway onto a smaller side road. Those of you who have ridden along the 99 freeway in central California know what I am describing. As they got to the curve at the end of the deceleration lane someone had spilled some dirt and there was just enough to cause his bike to go out from under him. His budy said they weren't even going 20 mph. Bob laid the bike down and was just making a gentle slide to a stop when he struck a guy wire from a phone pole. Broke his neck and killed him in a heartbeat.
I never rode without the full face helmet, gloves, boots and the heaviest jacket I could stand. Usually Carhart jeans as well. Back then I could barely afford a bike and leathers were out of my reach.
I think the opportunity to be badly injured or killed is always out there, whether you are in a cage or on two wheels and when it comes, it comes. The best we can do is keep our wits about us and be aware. A friend told me when I first started riding " drive like you're invisible".
I sometimes wonder if being too cautious can work against our safety as well.

Rodger

[trbig]

I fully support mandatory helmet laws, for the same reason I support mandatory seatbelt laws. It just makes sense.

Why stop there then? I mean.. motorcycles are more dangerous than cars anyway, why don't we just ban them? Then we wouldn't have to worry about helmet laws or people having any choice. Then we could computer control your car so you have no control over it or any say so... that would sure cut down on wrecks and the possibility of you hurting yourself. We could pad all the sidewalks so nobody gets hurt when they fall down.. or we could just take away your choice to walk down the sidewalk.. make a law to where you had to wait for your computer controlled public transportation. That would cut down on a BUNCH of little ladies breaking hips or something. How about if you have to wake up every morning and put on your governement mandated bubble suit to help prevent any injuries?

Why shouldn't we expect the governement to totally protect us from ourselves?

As I said.. I'm really glad I live in a place that I still have some sort of choice in things.


Tod

[Chuckster]

It's weighing the cost vs. the benefit

I think you're right, there are always ways to make transportation "safer" but with that there is also a cost. They could lower the speed limit on every street/road and save lives, but this would be impractical. The decision we each have to make is, does the risk of getting hurt outweigh the cost/inconvenience of wearing gear? Articles like the one posted make it easier to assess the risk of getting hurt, at least for me. I have definitely fallen into that "it won't happen to me" mentality in the past, but now that I'm older, I look at it differently. I think I'll go with the gear.