Question about starter clutch ?

[Ronnie_D]

Hello Everyone!

The day has finally arrived when I own a 1978 Yamaha XS1100. I am excited to get the bike running again.

I need to install a new or rebuilt starter clutch. Can the cases be split without taking the top end off?

I hope so, as far as I can tell it is possible.

Here are pics of what the bike looks like when I bought it and what I want it to look like when it is restored.

cheers,
Ronnie_D

[JeffH]

Congratulations on getting that 78' E and WELCOME to .club

So the starter is the only issue with this new to you xs11?
It looks like a well maintained bike that the previous owner took care of.

You think the starter is totally fried or just a victim of sitting? If so there are some Tips & Tricks to get the starter working reliably again.
One of the Starter Guru's will have to answer your specific question since the starters on my three E's got happier after using the tips.

Does it run? Can start it with the kick starter or bike needing a major servicing.

Let us know and again WELCOME

Jeff

[Ronnie_D]

Congratulations on getting that 78' E and WELCOME to .club

So the starter is the only issue with this new to you xs11?
It looks like a well maintained bike that the previous owner took care of.

You think the starter is totally fried or just a victim of sitting? If so there are some Tips & Tricks to get the starter working reliably again.
One of the Starter Guru's will have to answer your specific question since the starters on my three E's got happier after using the tips.

Does it run? Can start it with the kick starter or bike needing a major servicing.

Let us know and again WELCOME

Jeff

Thank you for the welcome Jeff.
Yes, the bike was loved by the original owner, nice condition.
It has 52,000 kms on it.
The bike does not run. The starter went out on the previous owner so he parked it in storage for 16 years.
He put a new starter in it back then but that did not fix the issue.
I hooked up some power to the system and tried to turn the engine over, the starter engaged and then grinding, clunking noises were heard. Then the noise stopped and now the engine wont turn over at all.
I think something major is wrong with the starter clutch/primary drive shaft.
The electric starter and kick starter have the same symptoms.
Tranny is good.
Valves all look good.
I am going to split the case and see what is wrong in there.

cheers,
Ron

[Bax]

Hi Ron,
Looks like a great find in really sweet condition. Welcome to the xs11 club.... As far as the starter issues you describe I will defer to other members. Normally, I'd be quite willing to assist but the reality in this case is that I've never been into the starter assembly on any of my XS's....... Looking at the parts diagram it seems easy enough though.

I'm sure I'll chime in on other assemblies/questions.

---Bax

[Eastcoaster]

Hummm we might need some more descriptive information on the symptoms. a starter clutch will wind and spin not really a grinding sound. the starter will spin just wont engage all the time. Some bikes you have to hit the starter numerous times in cold weather to get them to engage Tell us more usually if it is the starter clutch you can get them working again with oil changes and use of the bike. A bike sitting a while can cause this to happen. Good looking bike!

[Radioguylogs]

Regarding the sound, the starter clutch failed in my XS750.

It sounded like a violent ratcheting of marbles against metal. It was a scary sound like something serious had failed.

If your problem is actually the starter clutch, I would expect the kick starter would still turn over the engine.

You would probably have noticed it and mentioned it, but is it possible that the drivetrain clutch (not starter clutch) is stuck? It happened to me on my SG and I never noticed it during my entire "restoration". I found it when I finally started it after working on it for several months.


-Mike

[Ronnie_D]

The sound is like marbles and grinding, like a badly failed bearing. It is so bad that it would stop the starter from spinning. I tried the kick starter but same thing, it will turn a bit then lock up. So I pulled the clutch out and I then tried to turn the crank at the stator end, it turned about 60 degrees and then locked in both directions. It is now locked so tight it does not turn at all. Something is locking it up between the crank and primary drive. The valves all look good so it is not a stuck open valve. Crank moved smoothly when it was movable. I will split the cases and then see whats up in there.

The tranny is tested good

Can the cases be split to reveal the bottom end to repair the starter clutch without removing the top end?

I have watched some videos on case splitting and I think it is possible.

Ronnie_D

[motoman]

If starter seems to be the issue, just unbolt and remove it for clean-up and inspection. Absolutely not necessary to split engine cases.

[jetmechmarty]

The sound is like marbles and grinding, like a badly failed bearing. It is so bad that it would stop the starter from spinning. I tried the kick starter but same thing, it will turn a bit then lock up. So I pulled the clutch out and I then tried to turn the crank at the stator end, it turned about 60 degrees and then locked in both directions. It is now locked so tight it does not turn at all. Something is locking it up between the crank and primary drive. The valves all look good so it is not a stuck open valve. Crank moved smoothly when it was movable. I will split the cases and then see whats up in there.

The tranny is tested good

Can the cases be split to reveal the bottom end to repair the starter clutch without removing the top end?

I have watched some videos on case splitting and I think it is possible.

Ronnie_D

I haven't actually done it, but I'm pretty sure you can put the engine upside down on the workbench and remove the bottom case half. I know it isn't the same, but I just completed a transmission replacement on a XS650. It wasn't difficult. Just make sure you know where every bolt is before you start. The case halves are glued together with Three Bond or Yammabond. You'll break something serious if you miss a bolt.

Reading your post, I do believe this is what you have to do. Yes, I believe it comes off without disturbing the top end.

[MaximPhil]

Ronnie,
I wonder if it is worth taking the starter off and see what you can from the outside before splitting the cases. Certainly sounds like something mechanical in your case, not the usual whirring starter not engaging.
Drain the engine oil before turning unit upside down other wise you will have 40 years of crap pouring into the works.

MaximPhil

[Ronnie_D]

Ronnie,
I wonder if it is worth taking the starter off and see what you can from the outside before splitting the cases. Certainly sounds like something mechanical in your case, not the usual whirring starter not engaging.
Drain the engine oil before turning unit upside down other wise you will have 40 years of crap pouring into the works.

MaximPhil

The bike came with a spare starter. I did replace it and have tested both of them, both are good. Draining the oil is a good idea, I am going to pull the oil filter to drain that and pull the tranny pan to clean and drain that. I watched a video of splitting the cases on Youtube, he didn't remove and clean the tranny pan before flipping the engine over and 40 years of crud oozed down on his tranny and engine. Very messy. He said he should have pulled and cleaned the tranny pan first.

here is a link to the Youtube video.

cheers,
Ronnie

[Ronnie_D]

I haven't actually done it, but I'm pretty sure you can put the engine upside down on the workbench and remove the bottom case half. I know it isn't the same, but I just completed a transmission replacement on a XS650. It wasn't difficult. Just make sure you know where every bolt is before you start. The case halves are glued together with Three Bond or Yammabond. You'll break something serious if you miss a bolt.

Reading your post, I do believe this is what you have to do. Yes, I believe it comes off without disturbing the top end.

Hi Marty:

Thank you for your opinion and reply.

I will proceed with splitting the cases without removing the top end. I will post the results and also any issues along the way.

cheers,
Ronnie.




**UPDATE**

Turned out it was not the starter clutch. It was a rusted cylinder causing the problems. I am rebuilding the top end of the engine. From what I found out, the starter clutch can be replaced by removing the bottom case cover.
Ronnie.

**UPDATE**

[MaximPhil]

Ronnie,
I did not watch much of that video but was not too impressed. I trust you have a Manual before tackling this. If the alternator needs to come off leave the 3 bolts in the cover attached and it will line up properly when re assembled. Also dropping bolts on the ground is a sure way to lose them. I use old margarine tubs. Bolts in Ziplock sandwich bags and a marker will make putting it back together easier too. Note some bolts are are different lengths on the same component. Good luck and take lots of pictures.
Phil