Need help diagnosing noise.

[puv]

Hello all, you might remember me posting a while back about a noise sounding like valve knock. Yes it was a while ago but I still have not gotten it fixed. My problem is that I can't find a wrench in the area willing to work on my bike (XJ1100) so I guess I'm going to have to try it myself. What is the best way to tell if it is a valve making the noise. Again it is not the typical tick of an out of adjusted valve. This noise is a knock that is real noisy when starting up and quiets a little after warm up. Also it is noticable when putting the gas to it and lets up when I let up on the gas. It's not the exhaust gaskets. I have replaced them and readjusted them several times. I wonder if it could be the cam chain. I have adjusted it but I don't notice any difference. I also don't feel or hear anything when adjusting it.
I have done the gear cut back method to fix that problem. and I think this noise developed after that. I have also changed the oil pump after shattering the original when I reasembled the tranny gears wrong. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to try anything to get this fixed. I'm going right now to do a compression test. Thanks
puv

[DiverRay]

puv,
To try and find out just what part of the bike the noise is from, try an old Dr. trick. If you have a "SHUCKS" nearby, get a cheap stethascope for auto engines. It looks loke the type the Dr. uses, but it has a long tube on it. You should be able to pinpoint the noise with that. I would look to the cam chain or guides as a problem. If you did the adjustment, did you follow the instructions? you need to do exactly as the book says on the adjustment, or the chain may be left a little loose. Also check the timming, as if you have it a little off, you could be causing a "knock" in the engine.
Prometheous isn't that far from you, only about 1 1/2 hour ride. His shop may be the "last resort", or a good place to take your bike for a "pro" to work on it.
Ray

[puv]

Thanks Ray. I did use a scope and the noise does seem to come from the cam chain region. Are they hard to replace? I'm a good parts changer, just not a diagnoser. I think I can get the parts from Parts N More. Can I adjust the cam chain with the valve cover off and possibly see if there is any change in the tension?

[andreashweiss]

I have lots of used cam chain slides( plastic thing) and cam chains, and guides. andreashweiss@yahoo.com

[skids]

I would do a compression test before going much further...

[randy]

PUV,

While you've got the valve cover off, check the torque on the cam cap nuts.

[skippy344]

Hate to be adoom and gloom, but...

I could be a rod bearing knocking. I have gotten real good at diag-ing that problem.

My sons and I drive old Honda cars, and generally if the oil hadn't been changed regularily, eventually, the #2 rod bearing would spin and start to knock, first, only at engine start, then during hard engine acceleration, and finally, all the time.

I have had a few cranks turned and poished here lately...

greg

[Bauer]

cam chain out of adjustment usually is a ticking noise, at least it was on "The 3rd Degree" when I got her from the PO. It sounded like it could be valves, but after trial and error (started with the cam chain first) It was fixed. It was a tick that got louder or softer with RPM; upwards of 2k rpm, it was not noticeable much anymore. Adjusted it to spec in the clymers and no more ticking.

[Erik the Red]

Though I don't know a ton about it, I had a rod go on my Honda CB 750. It started off as just a minor niose, but got louder and louder over a period of a few weeks until I couldn't bear it anymore. This happened about 50 miles out, at night, and it was raining. So make sure you diagnose what's wrong and fix it before it gets worse.

Mine turned into about a $600 lesson. The engine I got off Ebay to replace the old one lasted ~1000 miles and left me stranded in southern Ohio, so I got another parts bike to use that one. Have yet to put it in. That's when I turned to the XS.

[skids]

Check your header gaskets also.

[mro]

nock nock ???

Rod nock sucks big time. Usually has a sound you won’t forget and sometimes can feel. I would think on the XS it would be easy to detect below the jugs.

On the cam chain adjuster, remove the adjuster w/o messing with the lock bolt. With it in hand slowly loosen lock bolt and see if spring pushes it out any. If it moves out some then cam chain should be "OK".

Last resort: Riding down to see prom? Wouldn't let him touch my bike. Have enough inferiority complexes.



mro

[trbig]

PUV


You can adjust your timing chain with the cover off, but all you need to do is follow the instructions for it. Remove your left side cover, put the timing mark on the "C". Loosen your holding nut of your cam chain tensioner, then loosen the main bolt. You should be able to hear an audible "Click" when you do this. No need to take the valve cover off for this. Tighten everything in reverse order and torque... be careful... easy to strip it out. It's only like 7 ft pounds or something... so no He-Man on it.
On a side note, you may laugh, but if you just take a regular stick.... broom handle or such... and touch one end of this stick to the part you want to hear, and the other end to your ear... works really well also. If you have a squalling bearing on your car somewhere, just put it against the different things... alternator, power steering.. etc. You'll be able to hear it. Po' Folks have Po' ways!! And yes... I actually played with just sticks and rocks sometimes growing up! GASP!! Should see what I can do with some duct tape and baling wire!

Tod

[prometheus578]

"Spare the rod and spoil the child"

Ticking valves should be easy to locate and remedy. Same fer da cam chain. Cam chains can be noisy at one rpm or another. A loose bolt holdin' a flywheel can really wake the dead. (some Kawasakis)
"I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV": Stethoscope is a good ideier. Can often be used to locate noise... 'cept when it's really internal, and often the engine case itself will transmit the vibe so that one thinks that it's coming from someplace else.
Let's assume that the valves are good, and that you've properly adjusted the cam chain tensioner, etc.
Here's what scares me.

and I think this noise developed after that. I have also changed the oil pump after shattering the original when I reasembled the tranny gears wrong.

Did it shatter when putting it all back together... or did it all go back together and was run with the oil pump not workin'? Is it working well now? (These bikes will not really clatter like an old chevy if there's not enough oil pressure)
All things being equal... and if everything else checks out... I'm sort of leaning towards Skippy's thoughts.

This noise is a knock that is real noisy when starting up and quiets a little after warm up.

A rod will do this as it waits for oil pressure to build up.

Also it is noticable when putting the gas to it and lets up when I let up on the gas

A rod will also do this as the piston gets a load on it and then eases up.
Again, assuming that everything else is good... fire the bike up and get it knocking. Pull the plug wires one at a time. If the knock is rod related... when that cylinder goes dead, there should be no load on that piston and no knock. (or at least a different sound to it)
Not being an XJ guy... I will assume that it has a centerstand. Put the bike on the center stand(REAR WHEEL OFFA THE GROUND!) Fire the bike up. (This is the part where it's nice to have a buddy hold the front brake lever in case the bike jumps and drives off by itself) With the bike running, put it in fourth or fifth gear. Place your pointed head down by the engine and slowly press down on the rear brake lever. This will put a load on the engine. If it is a rod... you should hear it start yellin' at ya.
As always.... I would be more than pleased to be wrong in my diagnosis.

[prometheus578]

"It's too late baby, now it's too late..."

Last resort: Riding down to see prom

Oh, nice! Where was this bike all winter when I was hanging around the shop (not drawing any pay), sandblastin', polishin' and givin' away freebies to large breasted women? (I had four of my 1100's in there and another wouldn't have been noticed)
In Feb., the shop was bought out by "Moto International" of Seattle(Moto Guzzi/ Aprillia) I no longer work flat rate (Worked when I wanted, Charged what I wanted... [or not at all!] etc)
I'm now an hourly slave... and these people actually expect me to make a profit for them! Can you imagine? What nerve!
Other than rechecking what the others and I have mentioned, diagnosis is no big deal. What it would cost to tear the bloody thing apart to see what's really wrong and if it's worth repairing... who knows?
Recheck, using the tips given, and report back.

[mro]

freebies to large breasted women?

now that would be worth riding down...or.... up to.

yea...up and down



mro


Have enough inferiority complexes.
see his first post
enough said