New springs on a new clutch?

[Mark_E]

I am in the process of putting new clutches on my XJ11 and was wondering about the need for new clutch springs as well.

I cracked the side cover of my tranny because the seal by the clutch release shaft was leaking and I figured I was this far, why not check out the clutch? My clutch wants to slip under maximum torque, which prompts me all the more to replace it.

So my question is, should I replace the springs in the clutch right away as well or does it not really matter? And for that matter, should the steel plates between the fiberous clutch plates be replaced?

I'm taking for granted these parts have never been replaced from original so at 60K+, it's probably about time.

Thanks so much.

Mark
E

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Mark,

Yes, definitely replace the springs while your replacing the FRICTION plates! Does a bed's spring's last forever, or do they sag over time ?! The manual tells about measuring the UNCOMPRESSED length of the old springs and replacing IF they are below spec, but to help tighten up the clutch, new heavy duty springs are GOOD! Less than 41.8mm long, replace.

Secondly, unless the steels are warped, you shouldn't need to replace them, just give them a good cleaning, perhaps a light scrubbing with some very fine emory cloth to remove the build up of varnish/glazing that can occur with age. A good soaking in carb cleaner first can help.

If you have a micrometer caliper, would be good to measure the old plates to see how much wear they have on them. OEM is 3.00mm, when below 2.80, time to replace. IT's doubtful that would need to put in an extra Steel plate, since this is the first time into the clutches, most likely the frictions are just shot!

Hope you have a good low scale/inch pound torque wrench, the star plate bolts only need 7.5 ft/lbs, into aluminum, easily stripped if over torqued The main clutch basket nut is 51 ft/lbs! See the tech tips on the TRANNY 1st and 2nd gear fix for pictures of the clutch star plate and how to reattach it WITHOUT breaking off the little lips on the ends of the plate!!

Also, make sure you back out the clutch lever adjusting rod and lock nut before reassembly, and the readjust per manual!
Good Luck, hope this helps
T.C.

[Mark_E]

A great start (and enough to finish...)

Thanks for the info T.C. I'll RTM on that tranny page. I'm not the type of guy to just replace everything by default. There's gotta be a good reason, a common one of which 'it's already open, might as well replace enough while we're at it.'

Someone out here mentioned replacing the steel plates but like you say, if I can clean them up, that should work. The old fibre plates are not worn out or loosing material, they just seem to slip. And if I'd ask my dad, who's still a bit old-school, we'd just shim up the clutches with another plate (which I don't have) and stretch or shim the springs. At $16 the springs aren't bad.

Thanks for now,

Mark
E

[DiverRay]

I just completed the "second gear fix" on Daily ride. When I checked the clutch plates and springs, the plate were within specs, but the springs were NOT. I just replaced the springs, and the clutch is better than new.
Ray

[mro]

DiverRay

I just replaced the springs, and the clutch is better than new.

How many miles on your bike???

Mines starting to slip a little more so need to check it soon
Just over 15,000 on the 80G (probably hard miles )

mro

[bandet01]

if you are going to replace the clutch replace the whole system the fictrin disc and the steels and the springs you dont want to have to go back in there and replace the stuff you didint the first time

[TopCatGr58]

Bandet,

The steels are over $8.00 a piece, $64.00+ for a whole set along with the frictions. The manual states that unless they are unduely warped, or the square tangs are nicked, bent, excessively worn, that they are not required to be replaced!

Yes, in a perfect world where money is no object, then replacing the steels is a fine option, along with the clutch basket since both of the pressure plates also sustain wear, BUT, the frictions are what wear the most, and usually replacing them and the springs is more than adequate!

[bandet01]

yeah but i thought a i saw a kit that had everything for like 120 with springs and everything eles need to have a new clutch

[pggg]

Unless the clutch has been 'burnt', the friction plates will likely still be within 3mm even after 25 years use, but the L/H alloy pressure plate is likely WORN by now. Steel plates will last forever. Springs crap out though, the 10% stronger aftermarket springs on my current bike eventually lost strength after 3 years or so when a slip began happening at full throttle in 3rd at 6000+ revs. I replaced the springs again($30 for 6) and no more slip. The springs work by locking the plates together and stiffer or shimmed springs DO make a difference. The main clutch nut - (34mm on some) - if not cranked tight enough will cause slips too. To make up for the worn pressure unit, that extra steel plate is excellent. I experimented with an extra friction plate combined with an extra steel, but the clutch wouldn't engage with both, but some grinding and altering would give a stronger modified clutch with the advantage of a larger surface area. An extra thick clutch cover gasket would likely allow the clutch to engage with both extra steel and friction plates.

[Mark_E]

What I've now done...

First of all, thanks for all your input. This is, for now, what I've done:

I checked to see if the pressure plate still had some travel in it with all the plates still in the basket. This done by removing a friction plate, reinserting the pressure plate and checking to see if the friction plate had room to slip into the clutch pack from the side. It did not.

My springs seemed to still be to spec or close therebye.

For some reason I remember my steel plates being 1.95 mm thick but that cannot be....

At any rate, to give the whole pack a bit more tension, I made my way back to my general "tranny rebuild kit" drawer in the shop and found a new fiber plate for some automatic tranny kit that was a pretty close size to my bike plates. In order to not be too thick, I sliced off one side of fiber from the new plate with a utility knife. I slipped this plate in with the others in the clutch pack (the new fiber's fiber side to a steel plate, the now-steel side to an original fiber plate) and put 'er all back together. Everything is now a bit more snug with a bit more play in the pressure plate.

I know this is not a common fix but I'm not a common repair-guy. If I have issues with this, I will confess them.

Now, it's winter here in Canada so I cannot try out these changes untill June. So, to those who *can* ride, have at 'er.

(One small re-assembly tip: when you're re-installing the side cover and it's all siliconed and ready to go, make sure that little pressure shaft that comes through the side cover is rotated correctly. If not, then the clutch release lever that the clutch cable pulls on will not install properly.)

Dreamin' of warmth,

Mark
E

[DiverRay]

mro,
The odometer said 54700, but I'm not sure it's original. I've put about 20,000 on it since last February. I did notice a difference of almost 3/16" between new and old springs. The new springs are the "heavy duty" from partsnmore.
Ray

[77mudbuddy]

I as well have a slipping clutch but the bike only has 14,700 miles on it. From what I'm gathering the clutch is probably fine and most likley the springs are just tired from 25 years of use. I looked up springs on www.partsnmore.com but didnt find any specified as "HD" springs.

This is what I found on partsnmore website Is this the "HD" springs that were mentioned.

Spring at bottom of page

If not then which springs are they? Thanks for any info!

[John]

Those are the correct springs for your bike.

[mro]

DiverRay

I've put about 20,000 on it

I take it as you've put 20,000 on a "used" clutch with unknown miles on it.

It started to have issues and putting the new HD springs have corrected the problem.

Don't think my clutch on the 80G is fried, but don't know how hard the PO had riden it. (aprox. 12,000 when I got it)

While I'm not an "easy rider" have not abused it (much).

Only 15,256.3 on it now.

Think maybe just a good clean/adjust and new springs may fix slip now???


mro

[DiverRay]

mro,
That's correct, I put the 20K on the unknown clutch, and when I went in for the tranny fix, all I needed was the springs. I remember my first XS1100, back in '77, I put 36K on it and never did anything but oil, filter, and adjust two valves. Oh, and I did have to fix the pickup wire.
I still have a pack of new plates, but they are probably going into the winter project. I will be trying to beef up the clutch on that bike, as I plan on putting out some power.
Ray